I Call It Dating. You Call It Stalking.


After hearing about two mothers who I know are excellent parents who had one child running around with a sharp tool that almost gouged her eye out, and another baby who managed to eat dinner at a neighbor’s house without anyone realizing, I decided to write about kids.

Mainly, I thought I’d think about my specific situation. Why do I or don’t I want to have children? What better way to make a life-altering decision like this than to make a Pros and Cons list and invite you to give your own invaluable, or valueless as the case might be, insight?

Let’s start with the Pros:

  1. They might support us when we’re older.
  2. They carry on the family name.
  3. They’ll mow the lawn.
  4. They have longer life expectancies than dogs or other pets, except for turtles.
  5. They’re slightly easier to train than most pets.
  6. They can be our own twisted science experiment.
  7. They’ll be little geniuses.
  8. We can live vicariously through them.
  9. Dependents are good tax breaks.
  10. With so many inbred white trash having multiple children in and out of wedlock, procreation is necessary to make sure that future generations aren’t overrun with morons.
  11. We can try out cool baby names like Thor, Fucknutter, and Pqrgslx.

And the Cons:

  1. They’re loud and obnoxious.
  2. They cost a lot of money.
  3. They might become real assholes.
  4. There’s no real guaranteed ROI.
  5. Our existing lifestyle would be severely disrupted.
  6. No more travel.
  7. No more fancy dinners.
  8. We’d have to go see those horrible animated films.
  9. Getting a nanny is fraught with danger and difficulties.
  10. Parental obligations for school and activities really suck.
  11. We’d have to go to school plays and musicals.
  12. They’ll probably disappoint me no matter what.
  13. The world’s too dangerous.
  14. If those two excellent parents above still have problems, I don’t stand a chance.
  15. We can lock the dog in the bedroom for the weekend with food and water if we want to go away.
  16. The concept of pregnancy sounds absolutely horrifying.
  17. The birth and repercussions sound even worse.
  18. I have no interest in choosing between my business and my children. The business will always win.
  19. They’ll probably become serial killers.
  20. They might be smarter than me.
  21. I’ll have to start eating vegetables.
  22. The thought of a new little baby does not bring any thought of joy or happiness to mind.
  23. My parents will try to make them into little Republitards.
  24. All of my friends with kids will think that they’re experts even though they can barely keep it together long enough to remember their own name.
  25. I can’t return them if I change my mind.
  26. I’d rather have money.

That’s all I can think of right now. I’m sure there are more Cons, not necessarily any more Pros, but I’d love to I suppose I’d be willing to hear your thoughts.

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79 Replies to “Kids”

  1. Rik

    Parenthood is something that should not be entered into with even the least little bit of indecision. It’s a long-term commitment; if you decide later on you don’t want kids, your choices are either an 18-year prison sentence or to ruin someone’s life.

  2. bluepaintred

    I always knew I wanted to have kids. After of course, I had my degree and tenure.

    Fortunately I got knocked up when I was nineteen. And my entire life’s plans were disrupted, but ..sometimes its soooo good, there are just no words for it. holding your own flesh and blood in your arms, watching them grow and learn.

    ….and then you have the days where you have to restrain yourself from killing them.

    pee ess: I have dog training questions, go over to BPR and answer them please, thanks!

  3. heather

    Some of your pro’s are wrong. They don’t mow the lawn (without a fight) and I think a dog is easier to train. But! It is fun to traumatize them. For example, I like to remind my 14 year old son not to wank all the time. It’s my job as a parent to traumatize my child and give him something to talk about in therapy when he’s older.

  4. Avitable

    Rik, you’re oversimplifying. It’s impossible to take on a responsibility like that without some doubt. And you forgot that if you decide later that you don’t want kids, one option is to just ruin your own life and live with them. And that’s why I have #25: “I can’t return them if I change my mind.”

    Sheila, well, damn. Now I’ll have to come up with a new name. Your comment got chosen as spam, which is why it didn’t show up at first, btw.

    BPR, you clearly dote on your children, but have you ever thought about your life if you had been smarter about sex and not gotten knocked up?

    NYCWD, genetically, I should breed. My family has good health, long life, and high intelligence. But I know what you mean.

    Phishez, that’s a good one, too.

    Mr. Fabulous, I know. Hopefully I would be able to teach them how not to get caught, though.

    Denise, good ones. The smells – ugh!

    Heather, when he’s locked the bathroom door or bedroom door for more than ten minutes, do you go up and knock on the door and tell him to stop jerking it to Victoria’s Secret catalogs?

  5. Miss Britt

    “All of my friends with kids will think that they’re experts even though they can barely keep it together long enough to remember their own name.”

    So do the ones without kids – that’s even better.

    And, wow, the way you put that out there is pretty harsh Adam. Like I let my freaking two year old just wander off.

    Ya know, I love you to death. But anything I say right now is going to come off shitty and defensive.

    You don’t want to have kids? Cool. But reserve judgement for those of us who have had the courage to do so.

  6. Poppy

    I had a con all prepared but then the cats interrupted me with their neediness. Hmm.

    If you’re not ready to have kids you shouldn’t have them. If you’re somewhat to 100% ready to have kids then you should have them.

    Oh, and pro? MORE SEX while you’re trying! šŸ˜€

  7. Avitable

    Brittanica, I’m sorry for making it sound like you did something wrong, because you didn’t. I was just using a small example to show that even great parents like you and Amy can have little shitty things happen.

    Poppy, but if a Con is less sex afterwards, it probably evens out to a neutral.

  8. bluepaintred

    I have tried to imagine life without kids, yes. But I cannot get a firm picture of it. maybe because life feels right to me like this.

    As for being safe with sex, we listened to a doctor, We did what we were told. We had backwards results,

  9. ADW

    Well.. each person tries to do what is right for them. I have two that drive me freaking nuts, but there are these little moments that make it all worthwhile.

    It’s scary, very scary. However you were wrong about one thing:

    They might be smarter than me.

    Answer – They WILL be smarter than you – it is guaranteed, you just have to make them believe that they are not smarter than you.

  10. Tug

    If it were up to me now, today, in this world, I’d never bring a child into it. Sad, but true.

    Fucknutter – heh.

    I’m passing on the “support me when I’m older” bit to K, we’ll see how long & how hard she laughs.

  11. Webmiztris

    holy shit, avi, your pro/con list looks exactly like mine!!! except for the training thing. I seriously think my cats are easily to train than any child I’ve ever encountered. plus once they hit teenager age I just know they’d be sneaking into my ‘stash’. little fuckers.

  12. Cheri

    Pros –
    You always have someone to give you a hug after a bad day.

    Cons –
    You always have someone else (besides) yourself to pick up after – because MY GOD boys can’t simple just throw shit in the trash can or put their shoes in their room!! lol

    Can you tell I had one of those weekends?

    Oh and someone to mow the yard – YA RIGHT – keep dreaming. IF you’re lucky you’ll get 8 years of them doing that. My son is 9 and he couldn’t do it by himself – no way! Neighbor kid does – he’s 11.

  13. Avitable

    BPR, really? Have you ever posted about that?

    ADW, little moments to make the rest of it worthwhile does not sound like a Pro to me.

    Poppy, you didn’t consider the feelings of the blogosphere before making this decision?

    Bossy, good idea! I think I’ll just do that instead.

    Miss Ann, I don’t know – she’s a mom who’s having a lesbian fling now.

    Tug, thanks for being honest with that.

    Dawn, can’t you just crate train a child?

    Cheri, I already have someone to give me a hug on a bad day. And my wife already has someone else to pick up after!

  14. themuttprincess

    Lemme tell you somethings: Having kids to mow the lawn is NOT worth all the other headaches, and neither is the tax benefit. I have one and he is great and all that…. But I will not be having any more PERIOD.

    I am fairly certain your wife would make a great mother, but you on the other hand my friend, scare me as a father.

  15. Avitable

    TMP, that’s why I made a list – to see if the list of Pros can outweigh the Cons.

    Crystal, thanks.

    Poppy, yes, that was my sarcastic point that I was making. And the only thing I love unconditionally are cheeseburgers.

  16. Poppy

    I don’t think your kids will be ditch diggers. Hay and I are intending to raise ditch diggers as a social experiment. Even if they’re smart we will tell them they must use their smarts for digging better ditches and no other reason. :sex014:

  17. Psychobabble

    Re: List of Pros

    1)They *might*. But most likely that support will come as finding the least expensive, non-abusive, elderly home to stick you in.

    2)Only if they are male, decide to procreate, and didn’t marry someone who insists the kids get her name or a hyphenated version.

    3)Yes, with plenty of bribery or threats


    5)How long does it take to potty train a dog? How long does it take to potty train a kid? I rest my case.

    6)I suppose. But remember you have to live with the results of said experiment

    7)mmm, let’s just say, not likely and move on.

    8)You could

    9)They are

    10)It’s too late.

    11)Chances are, two other kids in your kid’s class will have the same name, no matter how unique.

  18. Miss Britt

    why are men always trying to reduce having children to lists and numbers and pie charts and shit?

    it’s not about that – having kids is about a feeling. the pro’s, the con’s, the good, the bad, it’s way more than lists and numbers

    and i’m not saying you SHOULD have kids. I’m just saying you’re using the wrong part of your body to figure it out.

  19. Bri

    Here’s a con for you…how about when you leave the baby diaperless for TWO FUCKING SECONDS and she shits on the hardwood then sliiiiides across the floor in it.
    I love my girls. Seriously, I do…they are cute, smart, funny blah blah blah blah….I think everyday about what my life would be like without them. I would be richer and wouldn’t need a tummy tuck. Little fuckers. OH! there’s another con…how sexy are stretch marks to you? Hmmm?

  20. Avitable

    TMP, yeah, I’ve done plenty of that. I know all of those nasty details.

    Crys, you dance, sistah.

    Poppy, my kids would have to get doctorates, at the very least.

    Psychobabble, I’m not saying everyone’s kids will be little geniuses. Mine will, though.

    Brittini, every decision should be made by looking all sides and pros and cons. Otherwise, it’s a bad decision.

  21. Mistress Yoda

    I can’t believe I missed this, how did I miss this??

    My first one, selfishly, is that it would ruin my body forever and ever. My body is bad off enough as it is but pregnancy will shoot it straight to hell. I know it’s bad but it’s a real honest worry of mine.

    I worry about screwing them up, I’ve already screwed up my cats irreversibly but at least they can’t write a book about what an awful parent I was.

    I don’t want to pass on my genes of enormous boobs and PCOS, no thanks.

    I think I’ve written about this before, thanks for a look into how you feel about it.

  22. Avitable

    Brittilated, I didn’t really mean “bad” decision. I meant, a decision that can easily result in a bad result. And it’s true – can you deny that?

    Mistress Yoda, yeah, I was wondering when you’d chime in! I don’t think any of that is selfish. Deciding not to have kids is a selfless act, in my opinion.

  23. Mistress Yoda

    I think in the long run the decision to have kids comes down to a deep down feeling inside of you. You ask yourself “do I want to be a parent?” and if there is a real hesitation then you at the very least aren’t ready. I never had a maternal need for children and my relationship with Mr. Yoda is so important to me I don’t want to damage it (which kids can do).

    I went to school for Education (because I didn’t know what else to major in) and then I realized…to be a teacher you have to LOVE it or else you’ll hate your life…same with being a parent I think.

  24. Miss Britt

    “a decision that can easily result in a bad result”

    Sweetheart, that’s LIFE. Men want to make all decisions a sure thing and think by making lists and involving only your brain that you can protect yourself from fucking it up.

    I’m not saying you shouldn’t use your brain. I’m just saying (again) that it’s not the only thing that should be involved. And, in some cases, isn’t even the most important.

    And that by doing so, you can still, very easily, end up with a “bad result”.

    But sometimes you’ve just gotta say fuck it, pack your bags, and move to Florida – ya know? šŸ˜‰

  25. Mistress Yoda

    Well if you don’t have children (for one of the reasons) because you don’t think you’d be the parent the child deserves then that is selfless I think…you are thinking about future children that should have better than you can give.

  26. Avitable

    Mistress Yoda, yeah, I agree.

    ABrittable, I know that the heart has to play a part in making a decision, but I just don’t work that way. And you try to be very clinical and analytical as well.

    I’m saying that by wanting to take care of and provide for myself and my wife, that’s not selfish. Not having kids in general might be considered selfless.

  27. Miss Britt

    I do try to be cynical and analytical. But not exclusively.

    And I’m not saying that not deciding to have kids CAN’T be a selfless act. I just don’t think it is in your case. Especially considering your wife’s FEELINGS on it.

    And, I’m not saying that means that you’re wrong for not having kids. It’s just not some sacrificial selfless thing. It’s about perserving your lifestyle.

  28. Jen

    That fact that you have to make a pros and cons list means you shouldn’t have kids. If you were really smart you would have realized that right off the bat. According to yourself you are selfish and an asshole. Don’t ask yourself if you want a child. Ask yourself if you have the potential to be a good parent. Selfish pricks are a dime a dozen. A good parent is beyond all measure.

  29. Avitable

    Annie, she’s an alien. She can handle it.

    Jen, I know I’d be a good parent. But do I want to be? Or would I rather define myself by something other than being a parent? Maybe I’d rather be the rich uncle who the rest of the family loves.

    Mistress Yoda, she has to stave off the doubt and horror her life has become somehow.

    NYCWD, I bet she’s the bestest parent ever, too!

  30. Tug

    I think Jen stirred more :shit: than you Britt, but I can probably find a gold spoon just for funsies! (my daughter’s probably your age though, so it may not be too golden anymore)

  31. Bri

    A good parent is beyond all measure? My ass :assshake: Take your platitudes elsewhere.*edit* I took out the ‘dummy’ I thought that was rude.

  32. Avitable

    Tug, it doesn’t happen frequently enough for my liking.

    Brittastic, it’s not you, blondie.

    Bri, you edited it? The “dummy” part made it perfect! I would have accepted “fuckwit”, “shitface”, or “retard”, as well.

  33. Crys!

    for what it’s worth, i think lists are good.

    i mean, they’re sort of a sanitary mechanism, sure, and they’re all male, certainly (not something you catch most women doing unless they have to), but the thing about what you’re doing is that it’s thoughtful and you’re clearly not just banging a bunch of broads, or even your wife, creating lots of kids just so you can make an appearance on the next baby-daddy Maury show.

    it is responsible, though it may come across as lacking romance, and i think if nothing else you get kudos for that. but beyond even that, and despite your protestations to the contrary with regard to being an asshole and the like, i think you are a good individual, and an integrous one to boot; you’re also fiercely loyal to family, i sense that pretty clearly. you’ll be a great dad when the time comes.

    so lists are good, they’ll help you prepare and i think that’ll make you feel good on the front end, which you probably need. i don’t think however that they will ever help you prepare fully for a kid, because nothing in the world ever could, but that’s okay, because you’re going to do just fine—you and your wife, both.

  34. heather

    I have nothing useful to add to this conversation. That’s all. :poke:

    Actually I don’t knock on his door Avi, but that’s a great idea. I just send him text messages that say “I love you even though you wank too much” or “Stop wanking!”

  35. jenny

    7 days after I got engaged I found out I was preggers! Such a surprise because I was at work when I took the test. Post partum depression, weight gain, complete lifestyle change, Nothing like what I expected. I love my son, but will NEVER have another kid!

  36. stephanie

    Someone once told me, you’re never ready to have kids until you actually have them. Then you can’t imagine your life without them.

    I’ve found it to be very true.

    But, that’s just me.

    To each his/her own.

    On a side note, I think you’d make an awesome Dad.

  37. Amy

    OMG – the shit I have missed today!!! Dammit!!!

    You already know my thoughts and opinions on procreation where you are concerned.

    However, I should mention that LITERALLY while I was reading this, Ethan came in and said, “I was cleaning the kitchen (put that on your PRO list) and heard a funny “smack sound” (add this to your CON list) – Maggie was asleep on the couch and rolled off on to the floor and she’s STILL sleeping.” (one more for the PRO list, but only if your kid stays asleep)

    Raising a child is one of the greatest life experiences with both brilliant rewards and excruciating heartaches.

    I’d be more interested in knowing how YOUR wife feels about this. Cuz, you know, if SHE wants kids and YOU don’t… then she should leave your ass. :pissed:

    (Trying to make up for all the shit stirring I missed today in ONE comment… how is that for dedication?? :heartbeat: )

  38. heather

    Stephanie – That is so true about never really being ready until you have them. Hell, I have a 14 year old and I’m still not ready.

    And Avi – You would totally be a cool dad!

  39. stephanie

    Heather – I’m still wondering how the hell I ended up with TWO!!!!! šŸ˜€

    Can’t you just see Avi as a dad? He’d be funny as shit, and because of it, he’d have a really cool kid.

    Avi – There’s a pro for ya… your kid would be totally cool just by association!!

  40. Michael

    When I married I got a set of grown-up kids, all call me Dad, of course now they just hit me and their real Dad up for cash, bastages.

    The grandkids are cute and at end of day you can kick them out back to their own place. Although we have to train them to clean up all the toys and crap before they leave.

  41. Jacki

    Being 31 and the only person in my extended family without a child I get asked a lot when I will have one – my answer “the 12th……of never”. I don’t want kids and I don’t think this makes me a bad person. It makes me smart enough to know my limitations and logical enough to know that I could not offer a child everything that it needed to be well adjusted.

    I save a tonne of money, I don’t have to watch the wiggles, I don’t have to go to a thousand children’s parties a year, I can go out somewhere at the last minute without having to organise it a month in advance, I can lie in bed all day with a hang over, but the biggest pro to not having kids is – I don’t have to do that discusting parent thing where the kid partially eats something then shoves it in the parents mouth – god I can’t hack that!!

    At the same time I love it when my nephew and god children come to visit, I enjoy playing with them, but I know my limitations and am happy with my decisions, regardless of what people say to me.

  42. Avitable

    Amy, I know! I totally expected you to be tits-deep in this discussion all day. Maggie is a little walking tornado of disaster, isn’t she? Heh.

    Heather, I think I’d be stricter than you’d expect.

    Steph, I have high expectations, though. It would not be an easy time – they’d have to work hard and really kick ass to get any respect from me.

    Michael, how old are you, exactly? I never got a sense that you were very old from your blog. Hm.

    Jacki, thanks for your input!

  43. Chasey

    did you seriously shit behind the curtains, Av? that’s pretty fucken rotten dude. i could so imagine my mother if i took a dump behind the curtains .. lol. i’d get my ass kicked to China.


  44. onetallmomma

    Found my way here from Blue’s place. Great post and you got most of it right.

    I’ll tell you a secret about being a parent. If we have our hearts and minds open they will always teach us more then we teach them. And in some cases, help us grow up and become the people we want to be.

    That is the only thing that keeps me from selling mine on e-bay and moving to the South of France where hot cabana boys would serve me cool drinks as I sit and read in the sun.

  45. Mistress

    I know I’m late but whatever.

    I am the spokesperson for childfree Black women…well me and Oprah….but anyway having kids is not fun and games. It mostly sucks. I’ll never do it. Why stretch my crotch for an 18-20 year finacial and emotional obligation?

    My crotch deserves better don’t you think?

    Anyway, abstain from children. Chances are, you won’t regret it.

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