It's not always about being funny.

Bullies are cowards

I’m choosing to post this series of emails between the abusive husband of a blogger I know and myself. After he beat her, I paid for her to go stay in a hotel room for a night and encouraged her to get counseling, get an attorney, and get free. Unfortunately, she’s accepted his apology again and again, and it kills me to see that she’s forgiven him. That was about a month ago.


Yesterday, out of the blue, I received this email:

from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 19, 2007 8:56 AM
subject From XXXX’s Husband

Adam,

You don’t know me, but you certainly know of me. I’m Roscoe, XXXX’s husband. I believe you know me more as the “controlling one,” or as a number of other less flattering names. And of course, why wouldn’t you? You have taken my wife’s venting at face value. You’ve also taken the words of a young man in England who had a sexual interest in my wife at face value. You then handed out potentially life changing advice, called yourself a friend, then turned off your computer and went about your evenings, except for an occasional text or email.

First, be clear that you do not have the whole picture of our relationship. So while you enjoy the drama of a physical reaction I chose a number of weeks ago, you have made little effort to understand why. Is there ever an excuse for a man to be physical with his wife? No. Period. If I knew you better I would explain the discoveries I made that day. I would explain that everything I believed about my marriage was destroyed that day, and I would tell you why (though you are in the unique position of knowing a little bit of that in the situation with the young man in England, but certainly you do not know everything, including what came after him). But in reality, the rest is none of your business. As were many of the personal things my wife shared with you and her other internet “friends” about me.

And oddly enough, while you enjoyed the vision of me as controlling and abusive, did it ever strike you that she had absolute freedom on the internet. Did it ever occur to you that she was free to write about masturbation, sex toys, threesomes or whatever crossed her mind? She was able to have the time to post on everyone’s blogs, write her blog, respond to texts, or whatever else went on without my ever checking up on her. Hours and hours a day. She could laugh and comment [EDITED TO PROTECT HER IDENTITY], and I never stepped in, despite a number of very sexual comments about her made by other men. Pretty strange behavior for a woman strictly controlled, don’t you think?

But it was much more fun for you and her other internet “friends” to feed a drama, then watch more drama unfold. None of you lived up to your billing as a “friend” and dug to find out anything beyond information that would fulfill your illusion of drama. And you, of all her friends, had the most unique opportunity to step in and find out what was going on with the young man in England because you were directly in touch with him. But instead you stepped back, went into attorney mode, and then only after more drama unfolded did you step back in as a “friend.”

I do not blame you for my wife’s actions with the young man in England, or in the much more serious situation that occurred after him. However, I do take issue with is your insistence that you call yourself my wife’s friend. Taking a person’s rants at face value and handing out reactive advice makes you a dangerous acquaintance, not a friend.

You are married. Someday you will have a rough year. It happens to every married couple. Would you want your wife to have a friend like you around when that happens? Or would you want someone around for her who genuinely makes an effort to listen to the initial rants and venting, then makes a genuine effort to find out the truth so they can offer true support and friendship? Who would you choose when your wife someday seeks advice outside the safety of your marriage? Do you think your wife is immune from people like you, like the young man in England, like others who I will not mention?

In closing, none of this is your fault. I’m writing to you only because you had inside information months and months ago and you backed away, but still called yourself a friend to my wife. You are still free to text, call or email my wife. It truly is not under my control and I’m not asking it to be. I just ask that if you do any of those things, fulfill your claim that you are her friend. Make an effort to understand what that word means.

Best Regards,
Roscoe

It almost sounds rational and reasonable, doesn’t it? Almost, except for glossing over the “physical reaction”, which included dragging her across the room by her hair.

I replied:

from Adam Avitable
to RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net],
date Nov 19, 2007 9:45 AM
subject Re: From XXXX’s Husband

I only backed away because I had no choice. Due to my distance, I can only be a friend by phone, email or text. I’m not close enough to be otherwise. Additionally, I’m not your friend – I’m XXXXX’s friend. That does mean that I take her word at face value. And I always will. for as long as she will have me as a friend.

For some reason, whether it was a spam issue, incompetence when it comes to the computer, or just plain stupidity, the wife-beater didn’t receive my email. Many people might have dropped it. Not him. Here’s the email I got this morning:

from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 10:22 AM
subject From XXXX’s Husband

Adam,

No response to my letter yesterday? Actually, it doesn’t really surprise me. You’re just like the majority of XXXX’s drama seeking cyber friends – as soon as the light gets turned on, you scurry for your nest in the scum under the cupboards.

Who among you really ever intended to back up anything you told her? You think some legal advice and a hotel room would keep her company? Feed her son? Do you all really think a “hey girl, call me if you need to talk” is worth a crap when she’s really down? When her marriage is really in crisis?

You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The “controlling, abusive” husband who has supported her all along.

You’re worthless, just like most of her cyber friends.

Best Regards,
Roscoe

Now we get to see a little more of his true personality. Now he says his wife told lies about him, even though he admitted earlier to a “physical reaction”, aka shoving her to the ground and throwing things. It’s very common for a bully and an abuser to try to destroy the victim’s support, and he freely admits that he’s trying to get rid of all of her friends. Such a loving husband!

Our next exchange of emails went like this (my reply is at the bottom, and his reply to that is above it):

from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 11:47 AM
subject Re: From XXXXX’s Husband

Adam,

Send me a copy of that response yesterday, would you? I don’t have it on record. It absolutely did not come to my email. Period.

And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife’s life in the interest of preserving my family.

I anxiously await your reply (that I expect should include a copy of yesterday’s reply if it indeed really exists).

Best Regards,
Roscoe

—– Original Message —–

From: Adam Avitable
To: RoscoeP
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: From XXXX’s Husband

I replied to you yesterday within twenty minutes of receiving your email. I see that this email shows what type of person you really are.

Then he replies with:

Here’s an idea. Since you have no problem with everyone being out in the light on these issues, and to assure that I get all of your responses, why don’t you and I communicate through my wife’s gmail account at XXXXX@gmail.com

I told XXXXX I would be contacting you and she told me it would be fine if I used her account. She says it is very reliable and she too is curious to know how you feel about these issues.

Best Regards,
Roscoe

Ooh, doesn’t that sound like a good idea? The problem is, you see, that this bully has not only removed his wife from her friends, but he also checks her email, made her take down her Facebook account, and reads everything that she types or sends.

I replied and told him that since I’ve already replied, I didn’t have anything left to say, and he had this gem:

No you didn’t respond, Adam. If you did you would send a copy.

You are the coward with self-serving agendas that I have assumed all along. I had a gut bad feeling about you months and months ago, but I never tried to interfere with your communicating with my wife. Never even suggested she not contact you, respond to your pseudo-porno posts about her, nothing. I know it’s much more fun to think of me as controlling, though, isn’t it?

No, you are the one who has been revealed, Adam. Self-serving. Coward. If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I’ll get back to cleaning up the real mess.

Best Regards,
Roscoe

I wonder if by “cleaning up the real mess” he means that he’s going to teach her a lesson? Beat her some more? Or will he just belittle her and call her stupid again? I’m sure he thoroughly enjoys that.

Finally, after I give him my original reply again and say that I feel sorry for my friend and her son, he leaves me with this:

from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 12:46 PM
subject Re: From XXXX’s Husband

Yes, distance. It is so easy to make claims, then use distance as an excuse. I’ve never done that with my wife. When she was living in her car, I gave her a place to stay. When she needed to get away from a group of people intent on encouraging destructive behaviors, I found a way for her to get a thousand miles away to get stable. When she was ready to come back home, I drove a thousand miles to pick her up and I gave her a place to live. When she was not allowed to have any visitation with her son, I helped her prove her stability to the courts and I fought for her rights and helped her eventually get those rights. When xx’s excuse for a biological father finally dropped him off and said he did not want him anymore, I gladly accepted the opportunity to adopt xx and to be his father. Forever. Regardless of what happens to XXX and me. When XXXX wanted to go to school I let her take over two years off from work to focus only on school despite our financial situation at the time. When XXXX has gone through bouts of deep depression that have lasted for literally years, I found a way to keep our family together despite her destructive behavior.

So yes, Adam, feel sorry for XXXX and xx. Take everything at face value. Good job. Good for you. Keep using distance as an excuse and assuming you are rescuing a lost soul by contributing an occasional phone call and email. Meanwhile, some hard work is being done by other people.

I’m no saint, but I have never used distance as an excuse. And even after XXXXX has had another stretch of destructive behavior and collected another batch of drama-enabling friends, I am still here. Though, thankfully, XXXXXX finally seems to be coming out of her fog and she sees things a bit differently. I am hopeful this time.

You should never assume you know the whole story.

Best Regards,
Roscoe

I know that the blogger, if she reads this, will be upset that it got posted, and I’m sorry for that, but this type of sociopathic abuse should not be kept quiet – it needs to be discussed and dissected and examined, so that these types of bullies and cowards don’t feel like they can treat their wives as if they are just another piece of furniture.

Any thoughts?

UPDATED TO ADD:

I wrote this post before our entire conversation was over. Here are the remaining two emails, first my reply, where I finally got sick of dealing with his shit, and where he showed his true colors even more:

from Adam Avitable
to RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net],
date Nov 20, 2007 1:11 PM
subject Re: From XXXX’s Husband

Did you physically abuse her? Or have a “physical reaction”, as you so delicately put it?

Since I know that the answer is yes, I don’t need to know any more of the story. Even if there was any doubt on XXXX’s side of the story, your emails here show that you are a bully and a coward who thinks that rescuing XXXXX from the bad life she had before entitles you to treat her like property. You’re not a man – you’re a petulant, small-minded boy who used to kill cats and squirrels, I’m sure.

Why don’t you let XXXXX come visit Orlando with xxx and see if she comes back? Because you know what would happen.

from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 1:39 PM
subject Re: From XXXX’s Husband

I have never physically abused my wife.

I find it almost humorous that you assume I consider her property. You are not nearly as bright as you are skilled in creating argument.

I am only pleased that you are showing your true colors for XXXX to read in your own words.

But if she should not see through to what you are, and she should choose to come to Orlando, then she has that freedom. You already offered her a ticket, right? I’m sure you would throw one in for xxxx, fair to say? Send them. Indeed.

Of course it will then be clear as to what your true agenda is, and I sincerely believe XXXXX will now, finally, see that too. You are self-serving.

Incidentally, if I indeed were the abusive, controlling husband you would like to believe, isn’t your approach rather dangerous? Shouldn’t you conceal your plan to send my wife and son tickets so I don’t abusively control her and beat her? Is it wise to challenge an unstable, controlling individual’s manhood? Wouldn’t you actually be encouraging violence against the very person (my wife) whom you claim to have a genuine concern? Wouldn’t you all but be assuring a beating like never before by intentionally enraging me?

You see? This is why it is now quite clear just how self-serving you are. You care about nothing more than your own savior image and it is truly you projecting yourself upon me when you claim I see her as a piece of property. It is truly you who view her as some sort of property, and it’s ironic that you would set her up for physical abuse to serve your own end if I truly were the abusive person you would like to believe. Isn’t that interesting how that works?

Through that you have really brought some clarity to this and I am anxious for XXXXX to see for herself 🙂

Best Regards,
Roscoe

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104 Replies to “Bullies are cowards”

  1. Hilly

    It’s a little hard to believe that he’s no bully when his tactics with you were ALL bully. If someone doesn’t answer my email, I certainly don’t call them names.

    I love your short responses though…..yeah, you’re such a drama whore….*eyeroll*.

  2. Squeaky Wheel

    The unfortunate truth in this situation is that she’s going to stay with him because he plays the same mindfucking games with her, and they work. That’s why he’s trying it with you – because why not, if that method is successful with his wife, you know?

    You posting this can have several outcomes. One: she reads this, gets pissed at you for posting it, even though there’s no way anyone would be able to identify her, and she cuts you completely out. Two: She sees this and SEES her situation (sometimes it takes seeing what you’re going through in a different light to actually have a clear idea), and takes the initiative to get the hell out. Three: She’s pissed at you for posting this, but still stays with her guy, and nothing really changes.

    I hope that, whatever the outcome, it’s positive. She and her son need to leave, stat.

  3. Turnbaby

    Being the creature I have been trained to be I have a little psychological fun in store for old Roscoe.

    Whatever XXXXXX foibles and faults in life that does NOT give that controlling fucker free rein to physically abuse her.

    Unfortunately only she can get herself out.

    Ok Adam if you don’t want the forum here let me know

  4. Amy

    :pissed:

    It’s just too bad that someone doesn’t choose the “drama of a physical reaction” with his sorry, cowardly, pathetic ass.

    And, I know you are worried that the unnamed blogger will be angry with you or not speak to you anymore, but the fact is, if she chooses to do so it is only because she is either in complete denial or feels she has no other choice.

    The fact is, with all the media coverage of domestic violence for anyone to not understand that there IS a way out that there ARE other alternatives and that NO ONE, regardless of what they may or MAY NOT have done deserves to be treated like this – is just sad. Very sad.

    And, regardless of all the excuses in the world, this pathetic excuse for a man should be behind bars right now and she should be under the protection of a restraining order.

    He can excuse his behavior all he likes, but the fact remains, bullies are cowards and I doubt that he would have the nerve to say any of this to your face, he would probably just cower, pee himself and then go home and beat the shit out of his wife to make himself feel bigger and better.

    Karma is a bitch and he’ll pay for it one way or the other. They all do. Personally, I hope he gets his with his mouth muffled in a crappy mattress in a cell with big Bubba right behind him.

  5. Angel

    Okay, I love XXXX(your friend whose identity is protected here) as a friend with all of my heart. I can’t sit here in silence. I am a former victim of domestic violence, and since then, I have learned a lot. Here’s my take:

    “So while you enjoy the drama of a physical reaction I chose a number of weeks ago, you have made little effort to understand why. Is there ever an excuse for a man to be physical with his wife? No. Period. If I knew you better I would explain the discoveries I made that day.”

    He states that there is never a reason for a man to “be physical” with his wife, and then goes on to try to justify what he did by claiming that if he knew you better he would tell you what he discovered that day. If there is no reason to be physical with your wife (Which there really isn’t. EVER.), the reasoning behind what he did DOES NOT MATTER.

    despite a number of very sexual comments about her made by other men. Pretty strange behavior for a woman strictly controlled, don’t you think?”

    How would he know about these comments if he weren’t checking up on her?

    “I do not blame you for my wife’s actions with the young man in England, or in the much more serious situation that occurred after him. However, I do take issue with is your insistence that you call yourself my wife’s friend. Taking a person’s rants at face value and handing out reactive advice makes you a dangerous acquaintance, not a friend.

    Dangerous acquaintance? What are you a danger to? A man that verbally and physically abuses his wife while trying to maintain the illusion that he is doing nothing wrong? I’ll tell you where the danger is. He’s afraid that with your “reactive advice” you might help her realize how bad what he is doing actually is.

    “You are still free to text, call or email my wife. It truly is not under my control and I’m not asking it to be. I just ask that if you do any of those things, fulfill your claim that you are her friend. Make an effort to understand what that word means.”

    Now he is giving you permission to call and text his wife? Why is it up to him to give you permission. That should be up to her, and her alone.

    “You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The “controlling, abusive” husband who has supported her all along.”

    We encouraged drama, and he is sticking around cleaning up the mess. How fucking sweet. Does he want a cookie? We did not encourage drama, he created it. After he created it, he blames it on us, and then takes the credit for “cleaning it all up”. Yeah.

    “And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife’s life in the interest of preserving my family.”

    He’ll weed out the cockroaches in her life in order to preserve his family. This my friends is the isolation technique. Cut off all support systems through family and friends. The only cockroach that needs to be weeded out is him.

    If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I’ll get back to cleaning up the real mess.”

    Uh, you are facing him. Cleaning up the real mess? Was he going to go take a shower?

    “No, you are the one who has been revealed, Adam. Self-serving. Coward. If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I’ll get back to cleaning up the real mess.”

    Does he want a hero of the year award? He may have done some good, but it doesn’t change the things that he did that were wrong. Oh, and he let her take over two years off?

    I didn’t know that in order to be considered a friend you have to fly 2,000 miles every time someone hits a rough spot to have coffee with them. Apparently lending and ear and a shoulder to cry on isn’t enough in his opinion.

    In closing, I know that no one is perfect in a marriage, and that sometimes you do hit rough patches. However, no matter how bad things get, there is no reason to ever be physical with your spouse or significant other. Ever. I love and respect XXXX as a friend, and I am terrified as well as infuriated about the situation that she is in. If she ever needs help, I’ll do anything that I can to help her. Anything. (Or any of my other friends).

    Also, just because we are thousands of miles away from each other does not mean that we cannot all be friends. I know that I would do anything in my power to help any one of the friends that I have made over the internet, but sometimes flying to meet them just isn’t possible. So, we do the next best thing. We talk on the phone, send e-mails, and chat, offering support and advice through those lines of communication. You don’t have to be able to physically touch someone to hug them or let them know that you care.

    If you are being abused and need help please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. They will help you plan an escape and halp you arrange for shelter for you and your children at a domestic violence shelter in your area that is in a secret location. Your abuser will have a very, very hard time finding you. Trust me. I’ve been there. It’s all anonymous, and you are under no obligation, so please call. You have nothing to lose by calling.

  6. Turnbaby

    Avi—I warned you sugar;-)

    The admitted wife abuser said:

    “”Who among you really ever intended to back up anything you told her? You think some legal advice and a hotel room would keep her company? Feed her son? Do you all really think a “hey girl, call me if you need to talk” is worth a crap when she’s really down? When her marriage is really in crisis?
    You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The “controlling, abusive” husband who has supported her all along.
    You’re worthless, just like most of her cyber friends.
    Best Regards,
    Roscoe

    And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife’s life in the interest of preserving my family.””

    Yes y’all here’s how old Roscoe so lovingly described his wife just a little while ago….

    “”If she were a Star Trek character she would definitely be a girl character. Was there someone on any of the shows who was sort of slutty and submissive with an insatiable appetite for giving oral sex? If so, that is who she would be. If not, then she would be a character from a show where there was a character like that.””

    I’m not sure there’s anything more to add.

  7. jester

    He’s a manipulative control freak. He’s used to intimidating people around him into doing his bidding. Mostly, he’s attacking you as further means of terrorizing his wife.

    He wants to make sure SHE knows that you are scared or bothered by him and you’re no longer a viable rescue. That you are not is immaterial. He just wants to demonstrate that he can “reach” you.

    Unfortunately, there’s nothing that you can do for your friend until she makes the decision to leave this abusive asshole for good. Hopefully she will make that choice before he really hurts her, or worse.

  8. Miss Britt

    Angel’s response actually made me cry. How strange is that?

    Adam, I know we talked about you posting this and not posting this – and though it can seem like “drama” or exposing someone’s personal life – I think it NEEDS to be seen.

    This kind of crazy – you can’t imagine it. You can’t think that it’s really REAL if you don’t see the sick twisted game with your own eyes. For us, we can read these emails and go “oh my God, what an ass” – but imagine this is a REAL person, that someone is living with, married to, sleeping beside every night.

    That is just NUTS.

    Or at least, we all should THINK SO.

  9. Ms. Understood

    It typically takes about 6 or 7 attempts at leaving before a victim will finally break free from their abuser for good. Hopefully this friend of yours will figure it out before that long because he is obviously controlling and abusive.

  10. Roscoe

    Adam,

    You had a real chance to be my wife’s friend a number of times throughout this whole ordeal. Of all her friends, you had a very unique opportunity and you passed. And finally, to get to me, you have done this. You win. Well done. You have made an example of me, but you still passed on your opportunity again to be my wife’s friend.

    Why did you leave out our last two emails?

    Roscoe

  11. NYCWD

    Jester hit this on the head. He is trying to show her how powerful he is, and how she needs to depend upon him. I’ve seen this tactic before, and I’ve seen it in real life on the types of jobs where the wife just happens to “walk into a wall” or “trip down the stairs”. The fact that walls and pavement are not round objects is apparently lost upon them. In those cases, the abuser tries to bully the victim into refusing aid, citing a number of reasons… and cutting aid off from the abused.

    There is one error these types of sociopaths always make… not everyone will be in fear of them… and at some point they become too confident in their ability to control and overstep their boundaries.

    Unfortunately, sometimes their overconfidence comes too late.

  12. The Absurdist

    Well, I have been in this situation a couple of times, but in person. No one wins; no one ever leaves, and as much a you try to help, things do not get better.

    I won’t go into my thoughts about what he wrote, because I would need to write quite a bit. Understand that in no way, shape or form do I condone touching a woman inappropriately, including any physical violence. I would have done the same thing as you. But, based upon his statements, it looks and feels exactly like what I have been through twice in person.

    Yes, he does behave as though he owns her. But continuing any communication is as fruitless as discussing god with a turbo Xtian.

    She isn’t going to leave him until it is really bad. She probably has no self-esteem, and I am sure that he brings up all the things he did to “get her out of the gutter” and take care of her son. She feels trapped, and probably does not feel deserving, or at least feels like she owes her life to him for “pulling her up out of the murk”.

    Too bad. It sucks. I can understand why she is depressed. He took care of everything and used it to “own” her. She never had an opportunity to feel like an equal partner, so she reaches out online to be a different person; any other person, than herself…

  13. Heather

    Adam, I’m so sorry you’re now caught in the middle of this. Part of me wants to tell you to run away now, far, far, away. The other part of me wants to tell you to fly XXXX to Orlando, get her the hell out of there, and deprogram this woman to stay away from this psycho. He sounds like he needs to be alone in that room with Fab. And I’ll be there to tag team.

    You’re right, bullies are cowards. We all have your e-mail now, Roscoe. I’d watch out if I were you. You never now what a bunch of pissed-off, over-protective bloggers are capable of!

    Ass…

  14. ADW

    I am so saddened by this and I now know why XXXXX hasn’t been around for a while. I am so sorry that yet another woman has to go through this. If you analyze the language in the e-mails, you would see, easily enough the control and temper in the writer’s voice.

    “When XXXX wanted to go to school I let her take over two years off from work”…. Uh OK. You LET her? She is your wife, not your property.

    I hope that I am wrong, but I really think that this is how the situation will turn out:

    XXXXX goes back to her husband. For a while things seem OK. She can blog and text and etc, but really, she is too embarassed by what happened to do so. (IT IS NOT HER FAULT – she shouldn’t be embarassed, but a mediocre controller will be able to make her feel so) Then when she slowly starts to blog again, her husband will chip away at her self esteem and use his influence on her to make her feel so guilty that she ends up quitting alltogether rather than break up her family.

    Been there and I don’t look forward to seeing the above scenario. IF she comes back at all that is.

    Maybe XXXXX needs a little distance and perspective to put these things into place. Like Angel and quite a few other people said, there is help out there. Don’t be too embarassed to ask for it.

    Just remember that control is a kind of abuse. Your right to think as you please goes right out the window. You get “trained” to start thinking like the person who controls you and the longer that is going on, the harder it is to break away.

    I am sure that the husband actually BELIEVES that what he is doing is right. That is the sad thing.

    Hugs, kisses and prayers go out to you and you can e-mail me for my phone number. I am thinking that I am fairly close to you and if you want to talk, I’m there.

  15. hellohahanarf

    i was in a long term relationship where he “only” used words to keep me under his control. and it was scary. the isolation was terrible. can’t imagine how it would have been if he used his physical power to also control me.

    strange, the reason i left was the isolation. i love people and couldn’t handle the solitary confinement. i didn’t like not feeling like me. tried to leave twice before i finally stuck to what i knew was right and moved out for good.

    what i find truly interesting is that i got more respect and support from those i thought would look down on me. they were so proud of me for standing up for myself. not pity either. and they showered me with time, furniture, food…anything i needed. it was truly amazing. especially when i didn’t feel like i deserved much at all.

    adam, you & britt are good friends. stay strong for her. (ya know, i haven’t read her blog for that long of a time, but knew IMMEDIATELY who this was about. hope she knows she is bright and funny and doesn’t deserve to ever be shoved to the ground.)

  16. Victoria

    He is working so hard to sway you isn’t he?
    I hope your efforts are not for naught. It sucks that you’ve been dragged into this. It is so achingly hard and frustrating watching a friend return to someone who has hurt them so much. It’s so hard to understand why they can’t see the obvious.

  17. heather

    Things get blown so out of proportion when people gossip for the sake of good drama about others without ever checking with the person they’re gossiping about to learn the real truth.

    The truth is I had an internet affair and my husband found out. The truth is we had one horrible day when he found out and what happened on that day has been blown up a million times worse than what actually happened. I haven’t been online because my husband and I have been working very hard to [privately] fix our marriage.

    I love my husband and am frustrated because I trusted my friends enough to vent and it got twisted into something very big and very serious and now no matter what I say, nobody will believe the truth about what a truly good person he is which is very unfortunate because you’re all missing out.

    My husband is not a controlling wife beater. He isn’t perfect, but neither am I and the friends I want in my life are the ones who don’t judge my life and my husband based on one day. The friends I want in my life are the ones who will take the time to email/call/text me to find out the truth rather than post threats to my husband in these comments. (By the way, with all these “concerned, caring” friends here that will do anything to help me you would think I’d get a phone call/email/text and I haven’t received a single one. Nothing. But people who have no clue who I am have no problem bashing my life and my husband on here. Drama clearly beats friendship.)

    The thing is, everyone is so caught up in the drama (apparently too caught up to bother even checking up with the person the drama is about) that nobody cared to think about what a public post would do to a person in real life. Nobody thought about how a public post about very private things could hurt me and any progress that was made toward fixing my marriage. Or that my coworkers read this blog and all the hard work to keep things private and away from work have been blown which will no doubt cause more problems for me. That by publicly posting our home email address, we would be harassed by people who claim to care. Not only that but by publicly posting our home email address and his name, you have potentially hurt our income since he does business online and any one of his customers can now google his name and email and read slanderous (untrue) things about him.

    Again, drama clearly beats friendship.

  18. Miss Britt

    @Poppy:

    It needs attention.

    XXXX has her own choices to make, and I completely understand that. Really, I do.

    But emails like this, tactics like this, men who think and talk like this – are common. Roscoe isn’t the only one.

    And they need to have their asses dragged into the light where people can SEE it for what it is and call them out on it. The days of being the “good neighbor” who doesn’t make a fuss and closes the door and turns up the TV because they don’t want to “cause any trouble” NEED to end.

    And not just for XXXX.

  19. hellohahanarf

    heather,

    if roscoe didn’t want to fuel the drama, why did he email adam? you quit blogging to concentrate on privately healing your marriage, yet he chose to put in writing words to someone known to post anything and everything out there for the whole world. doesn’t seem to me like he wanted privacy.

    i’m truly sorry that you are dealing with all of this mess. but i don’t think avi would have ever threw your life onto his site like this unless roscoe stoked the fire the way he did.

    all the best to you.

  20. themuttprincess

    Having been abused in my life on many different levels and by different types of people, this makes me cry. I read what he wrote and I see my ex’s. And I remember thinking it was ALL my fault. As if I could change and fix whatever it was that was going on.

    I really wish that there was something I personally could do to help–BUT I have learned that the victim usually has to hit ROCK bottom in order to leave. And everyone’s rock bottom is different. Avi, and anyone else that knows who she is please stick by her and help her when she is finally ready. Just knowing that there is someone out there who cares is sometimes what it takes for them to leave the abuser……

    No one deserves to feel like the dirt on the ground gets more respect. No one deserves to have ANY aspect of their life controlled. OR to be hit/shoved/or touched in any angry physical way. No one should feel helpless.

    My heart is with you.

  21. Robin

    I’ve come across bullies in all shapes and sizes. They don’t hide well, it’s tough for them to cover up their true colors as it was obvious with him. Most often people run away from bullies and ignore it, it’s good you told the truth.

  22. Roscoe

    I emailed Adam because he knew about the affair and merely handed out divorce advice. He did not step in as a friend and try to find out what was going on. I do not hold him responsible, but he should be accountable for his actions (or lack of).

    This is not an uncommon approach in the wake of an affair. It is actually recommended that the spouse who was betrayed write letters to those who knew of the affair and chose not to step up to the plate as true friends. It is recommended that they be weeded out. This is not something that I have made up.

    You want to see it as controlling, and you are correct. Anyone who knew of an affair and was an enabler must be agreed upon to be removed from the relationship. Again, this is actually recommended action by many reconciliation books and it was directly recommended by OUR marriage counselor. Incidentally, I have even discussed in detail the physical reaction I had that day with our marriage counselor.

    Adam clearly is a toxic person to our relationship and I did as was recommended. I vented my anger at his knowledge and began the process of weeding him out of our relationship.

    He chose to make an example of me, rather than prove his friendship for Heather. So in a way, this is all a blessing because it is now clear who Heather’s friends really are, and who are not.

    For that, in a way, I am thankful that Adam has posted these emails and added his narrative. I am thankful for the threats you’ve made without bothering to contact Heather first. You are making the weeding out process much simpler.

    So go on with your analysis. I may not have been particulary well spoken, but it was following the advice of a marriage conselor. Copies have been made of the entire exchange and will be reviewed with that same marriage conselor, as will be forwarded to whomever may be interested at the local bar association in the Orlando area.

  23. Miss Britt

    Heather,

    I’m battling two instincts here: shut up for your sake, and speak out. I’ve never been good at shutting up.

    As everyone here knows, I know Adam. And I wish you could see what I see – that this wasn’t anywhere close to an attempt to create “drama”. THIS is what a man does who is taunted by a bully from miles away. THIS is what a man does who is otherwise helpless to defend a friend. THIS is what a man who does NOT have a “physical reaction” does when he is angry because someone he cares about is being treated unfairly.

    I wish that you could see that our emails and texts to “check in” (mine included) both during and since “that day” are borne out of genuine concern. Out of genuine friendship. Out of a genuine desire for YOUR happiness.

    We don’t email/phone/text – or post this – because we crave Internet Drama. We do it because we believe in who you are. We do it because we want so badly for you to be happy and healthy and safe and strong and OK.

    We do it because we desperately need for you to know that you deserve all of that and more.

    And we need you to know that we will be here. Even if you’re angry now – we will always, always be here.

    And because we wish like hell that you would believe US.

    In all Sincerity,
    Britt

  24. RuralBytch

    Long time reader, but first time commenter here. I have no knowledge of whats led to the events of this post except for what I’ve read here, so I’m coming at this from an outsider.

    And AS an outsider, it appears that in Roscoe’s mind he is doing what is ‘neccessary’ to save his marriage. A person can not blame their ‘friends’ for the demise of their marriage. He keeps speaking of weeding out toxic friends. These friends are only really truely toxic if they are the ones who pushed the woman into having the affair. Simply knowing it was going on does not make someone an enabler. As XXX’s friends, letting her do what makes her happy, and not informing her husband does not make you an enabler. Had they been the husbands friends and not the wives perhaps I could see where the husband would have cause to call them ‘toxic’ and to ‘weed them out’.

    To me the husband is using psychological BS (all this weeding out of friends) in order to make it appear he is doing good for the marriage. When in essence what I see from an outside is that he is using what the so called experts say, to his advantage by segregating his wife from any form of support system. What better way to do it then convince them its for their own good.

    Blah…. I could go on… but in the end unless XXX wants to leave no amount of outside support is going to get her to that point until she is ready to see through the blinders what really truely is going on with her marriage. Not speaking from experience or anything.

  25. Melanie

    I know you had good intentions but I think you had no right to post this information. Yes, you are doing it to call out an abuser but in the process you violated XXXX’s right to privacy. Her privacy should have been more important to you as her friend.

    I am an occasional reader and it really should have been up to XXXX for me to know this personal information about her life. If she wants to have an affair, stay with her husband or dance naked in Central Park, it is her choice. You as a friend are required to listen, offer advice and that is all. It is ultimately her choice and I personally would never confide in you again after airing my dirty laundry on the internet.

  26. NYCWD

    First, allow me to apologize for continuing this although the person who it involves has requested it to stop @ comment number 21, but I find this to be a serious matter having experienced it myself…

    This is not an uncommon approach in the wake of an affair. It is actually recommended that the spouse who was betrayed write letters to those who knew of the affair and chose not to step up to the plate as true friends.

    It is at this point where I now call bullshit. As a victim of an adulterous spouse, I assure you this is NOT common for the betrayed spouse to engage the cheating spouse’s friends who had knowledge of the affair. You should request the credentials and written references of published works for the basis of this instruction from your therapist.

    It IS common for a betrayed spouse to contact THEIR friends who had knowledge. The reason behind this is because the betrayal of their spouse is only amplified by the betrayal of their friends, who are therefore considered toxic, yadda yadda yadda.

    Roscoe, while it is true I don’t know you… and I would venture to say that Heather and I are more of online acquaintances than true friends, I will say that when we did speak she had nothing but nice things to say about you. I can’t help but feel that in reality you love her dearly, were crushed by this revelation, and you began your journey into a sociopathic state of mind. I’ve seen it before. Hell, I’ve done it.

    So let me offer you this small piece of advice… put the overpriced books down, find a new therapist, stop misdirecting your bitterness, and realize that the biggest enabler of an adulterous spouse is you.

    But don’t think your special… because I was one too.

  27. RW

    I find it very hard to fault someone whose intentions were good, questionable methods of response or not. Something tells me this post wasn’t started with a flippant, “oh what the hell” kind of approach. Something tells me there was a lot of back and forth before Adam posted. So before anything else, we need to find the Light in everyone involved.

  28. Anonymous

    Heather: sorry you have had such a hard time. Truly.
    Roscoe: you said it best when you said you “chose” a “physical reaction” – but really, why not call it what it is? Saying you chose to beat your wife would have been the truth, right? Why didn’t you just say it? Your wife has taken you back and no charges are being filed against you, so why not just say what you did? The extent to which this is none of my business is obvious – I only say this because of what I see as an overwhelming amount of typing intended at defending or minimizing the violence perpetrated against your wife. She is a grown woman and she can choose to work on the marriage if she wants to, but for heaven’s sake, MAN UP already. Admit what you did, admit there is no justification for it, and seek help. There’s no chance of saving your marriage if you can’t admit what you did and examine the causes of your unacceptable behavior – and NO, your wife didn’t cause it by doing something “bad” – whatever she did or didn’t do, violence simply does not apply to the case. Work on that instead of criticizing Avitable for trying to do right by his friend. Also, it is the right and honorable thing to try to save your marriage. Of course it is. No one would judge you for that, so there is no need to be defensive about that, either. But if your method for saving you marriage is THIS – defending yourself in the comments section of someone’s blog, something is seriously awry. Your complaint with Avitable for posting the emails may or may not be legitimate. I can’t speak for Avitable. I have only been reading his blog for about three weeks. From a truly objective 3rd party’s point of view, his decision to post your emails wasn’t an attempt to be hateful or an attempt to hurt YOU; he was merely trying to illustrate a point about relationships for his readers and if possible, help Heather look at the problem from the point of view of most of the rest of the world, which is holy shit DO NOT STAY IN A MARRIAGE WHERE YOU ARE IN PHYSICAL DANGER. It is worthwhile for her to get that message. If you think people are going to take the time and trouble to hunt you down, forget about it. Everyone knows that Heather alone is responsible for removing herself from the relationship if she is in danger. All anyone else can do is be there for her – which Brit has just said she and Avitable would emphatically do – whether she stays in the marriage or not. As for the charge of “drama” brokering, it’s not just Avitable doing the brokering – you are too, by sending those emails and by posting in the comments. And also this isn’t even drama. It’s just one day in a string of bad days you’ll eventually just call the bad time of 2007. No one is out to get you – certainly not people on the computer who don’t even know you.
    All other concerned parties, refer to Brit’s post earlier this month titled “The Watchers” it speaks the truth about how little even a good friend can do to help someone leave an abusive relationship. Heather will leave if and when she is ready – and in the meantime, remaining loyal to Heather, no matter how pissed off she might be today, is the right thing to do.

  29. Roscoe

    Anonymous,

    Your post is well spoken and includes some wise thoughts. However, be clear that I have never once in my life hit my wife, ever. I have never hit a woman, ever. As for disecting exactly what occurred in what was literally a matter of seconds has been discussed in detail with our marriage counselor. I indeed have manned up to it in the presence of my wife in our marriage counselor’s office. And I assure it DID NOT INVOLVE dragging my wife around the room by her hair as Avitable would have you believe above.

    This has been so blown out of proportion.

  30. heather

    I am not going to keep debating this because obviously nobody wants to listen to the person this is about.

    I will say that I’m very disappointed that of all these “concerned” friends, only ONE has attempted to contact me. Why has nobody cared to find out the truth instead of feeding in to this overblown drama and actually making things much worse for the “friend they care so much about”?

    Adam – Please remove this post. Be the friend you claim to be and listen to what I need you to do.

  31. Robin

    Heather, the reason I haven’t contacted you is for a few reasons. One there was I believe at least 1 email and a voicemail I never got a response about. I was also afraid if I emailed you that it would make things worse. I’m not sure you realize how much people have worried not knowing what to do.

  32. J.

    Holy fuckbuckets.
    After reading all of these comments, I don’t even know what to say anymore.
    What a mess though, Adam. Sad that you apparently tried to do something good, and it backfired royally on you.
    xoxox

  33. kim

    Heather,
    I am concerned for you. While we may never know what really happened, what I do see is concerning. No one should ever “let you.” You should be in control of your own life. Decisions should be made jointly, not someone letting you take time off to go to school. When my husband decided to go back to school we jointly decided that we would live more frugally so that he could take the year off. If you are over 18 you no longer need to have permission to live your life.

    This kind of controlling is generally an indicator of other problems. While I don’t know you, I do hope that you are safe. If you are going to stay, educate yourself on the signs of an abuser, and where to go if you feel that you need to get out.

    And while you may be pissed as hell at Adam, remember he was there for you when you needed it. That, to me, is the definition of a friend.

  34. Bec

    Every case is different but there were phrases in his emails that sent chills through me. Counselling needed. Now.
    Adam, you really are a good friend, you’ve done what you thought was right and that’s all you can do. I wish I had had someone like you around in the past.

  35. Amy

    People, people, people, you all have good intentions and to Melanie – Adam airing dirty laundry? Hey, Roscoe shouldn’t have emailed him. Adam didn’t post personal emails between he and Heather – he posted emails from an abusive husband who was obviously trying to intimidate him. There’s a big difference. He didn’t expose anything SHE confided – he exposed a textbook abuser.

    Heather, you know what, honey, you are in denial. Take a look at what your husband said – “he chose a physical reaction” and in the next post says “he’s never hit anyone” – guess what Roscoe, my ex-husband never outright PUNCHED me. Nope, he pinched the shit out of the back of my arms until they were lumpy and black, he pulled my hair and he slammed me into walls, he head-butted me in my nose one night and the entire room looked like mass-murder had been committed.

    But, guess what, honey, he never “hit” me.

    So, I don’t care if Roscoe shoved you, kicked you, pulled your hair, or pinched you – if he TOUCHED you AGGRESSIVELY AT ALL – then it’s WRONG and it is NOT how rational, mature, human beings act especially when they are supposed to LOVE one another.

    And, I don’t give a damn if he walked in on you with three other guys – there is NO excuse for ANY form of physical aggression.

    Roscoe – jesus, for the love of God, grow up. “You chose a physical reaction” but you have never “hit a woman” – both are the fucking same you dipwad.

    You may have Heather buffaloed and intimidated but YOU showed exactly who you were in those emails.

    And, “blown out of proportion” ???? Yeah, that’s what I told my mom and friends too. I said the same damn things Heather.

    But as a mother, I got my children out of there because even if they weren’t being abused – they were learning that it was ok to treat someone like that, and whether you like it or not, your son will do the same especially since you say it’s ok and was just blown out of proportion.

  36. heather

    Wow! 48 comments from people who care and yet nobody cares enough to really listen to ME.

    Let me say this very clearly. I am not in an abusive, controlling marriage. I am not a fucking victim. You want my dirty laundry? Here ya go. I fought my way from being homeless and living in my car to be who I am today. And you want to turn me in to a victim and talk about me as if I can’t make my own decisions? I’m not that weak and I resent the fact that you all want to make me out to be some weak helpless victim. I am smart enough and strong enough NOT to stay in an abusive relationship. Give me some fucking credit here and quit questioning my intelligence and strength.

    Now, while you all get to enjoy the drama of MY PRIVATE LIFE (that I DID NOT want public) today and you get to turn off your computers tomorrow and enjoy your Thanksgiving dinners and forget about me, I’m left dealing with the very real problems this post has created for me. Will you all be here for me tomorrow to help me clean up the mess this post caused?

  37. RuralBytch

    So, I don’t care if Roscoe shoved you, kicked you, pulled your hair, or pinched you – if he TOUCHED you AGGRESSIVELY AT ALL – then it’s WRONG and it is NOT how rational, mature, human beings act especially when they are supposed to LOVE one another.

    Very well said. There is one thing I have zero tolerance for and it is ANY form of physical violence perpetrated between people who say they love each other. Hitting, Pinching, Slapping, Tripping, Throwing stuff at, I could go on and on.

    Sadly, when you feel alone and scared and the person doing the “physical reaction” has convinced you they are all you have and ever will have those apologies actually seem sincere for awhile.

  38. Amy

    Heather,

    Yes, we are all going to shut off our computers and spend time with our families tomorrow. Would you suggest we hop on a plane and fly to you so that we can hear more excuses about how Roscoe is a loving, nurturing, uncontrolling, nonviolent, husband?

    Look, if this post caused trouble for you – then point the finger at your husband because this post would not exist if HE hadn’t elected to EMAIL Adam out of the blue. HE started this, HE caused this post by emailing.

    And, one day, you will look back on this and you will see the other sides. But for today, don’t blame us or Adam for “new” problems. Blame Roscoe, if he didn’t want to be exposed as a bully he never, never, should have emailed Adam.

    And, if you two are really a united front and truly have this marriage where a dramatic situation has been blown out of proportion? Then all of this, us, our concern, and the emails from your husband, should make NO difference between THE TWO OF YOU.

    So don’t make us feel guilty for your situation or any “problems” that imagine this post has caused for you. Put responsibility where it belongs, on your HUSBAND who wrote the emails and instigated all of this.

    Bravo Roscoe – you’ve done your job. She’s “standing by her man” hope it gives you the warm fuzzies all over.

  39. hellohahanarf

    heather, i don’t even know you. i’m not one who claims to be your friend. but i can guarantee you that you won’te be forgotten about tomorrow. when we are giving thanks at dinner for what we have and praying for others, i guarantee you that you will be on my mind. if you are sincere in your request for assistance in dealing with “the mess” then i’m sincere in my offer to help.

  40. Squeaky Wheel

    Heather,

    All we, the outsiders, have to go on is what we see here. I can tell you exactly what I see:

    Roscoe is an asshole. Regardless of whether he “hits” you or not, he ADMITTED to a physical reaction after a transgression that you made. Regardless of who was in the right or wrong in that situation, a physical reaction is not the correct reaction.

    Seeing how he’s writing and reacting, and how he keeps coming back to continue to exhibit the same verbally abusive behavior in this forum (which, admittedly, might not have been an awesome idea, but I can see the good will behind it) doesn’t really bode well for strangers to think he’s NOT an asshole. And to that end, any comments you make look like classic cases of denial.

    What mess would you have to clean up? YOU have the power to walk away from this post, too, and no one is holding you in the wrong here. If Roscoe feels the need to take out his anger over this in any way on you (which is what I gather from your statement), then that’s further proof that your situation isn’t ideal and should probably be dealt with.

    I’m a complete and total stranger, thus I wouldn’t email you, even though I have my opinion on the situation.

    Also – if there IS a problem, I think this situation is probably one of the best things that could have happened, because it’s forcing the issue. IF there’s a problem, it can’t be hidden any more. If anything, this is going to cause people to pay closer attention to you. I honestly believe that you still have support in any way you need it from the people who’ve been there for you in the past. They’re not going to ignore you if you truly need help. All you have to do is call. That’s what friends do.

    Whatever the case, and whatever the situation, I wish you the best of luck. There is obviously some sort of issue, and if you guys are getting counseling, I hope it works, or that you find some way to amicably solve whatever issues are happening or have happened in the past.

    I understand if you’re irritated at total strangers voicing their opinions. I would be, too, and I guess I feel the need to apologize for my compulsion to offer my opinion.

  41. Ann

    I can not count the number of times I could have used an Adam in my life. Be thankful you had someone to turn to in your time of need.Lots of folks are not that lucky!

  42. Miss Ann Thrope

    I can’t say I can’t believe you wrote about this making sure everyone would know the identity of the woman involved because as I’ve told you before, I don’t think you have any social skills or common sense.

    You put her life on the internet. You, once again, meddled and ‘took over’ to the point of outting people’s names and personal lives.

    I think you should be ashamed of yourself. I’m also very sorry that you know anything about me. I’m sure I’ll be the next person you blog about whose identity you are “protecting.”

    You did the wrong thing.

  43. Gemini

    It sounds to me like we have made things worse for Heather (I use her name only because she ousted herself already by posting here) she has said several times that we have made things worse for her. So I think that she now knows how everyone feels on this subject.

    Avi you have done a good thing here today. Heather may not appreciate it now but maybe some day she will see that although we walk away and enjoy Turkey tomorrow and move on with our lives… that if she were to call you or anyone on this list of people who have commented they would do as much as they could possibly do to help her. As long as she asked for that help.

    Heather, I am sorry that you have not heard from anyone on this subject. Unfortunately the Drama that was caused, was caused the moment you told whom ever you told that your husband had such a DRAMATIC “physical reaction” when he found out that you had done whatever it was that you had done. (Sorry I can’t speak to whatever that is because I was not let in on that personally)

    I can’t speak for everyone else on why they have not tried to reach you… as someone that only first started to get to know you before all this started. I can say you left Facebook and I had no way to contact you, comfort you or to make sure that you were alright. You dropped off of the blogging world. I completely understand why you did. You needed time to heal that makes sense. This is the only way that some of us could come and get a message to you and then there are those like Robin who felt that they may make it worse for you.

    I agree with Britt. If you need us we are here.. you can contact anyone of us at anytime. You and certainly Rosco may not like the advice we give but we give it because we care. Truth be told we can only know what you choose to tell us and it is human nature to want to help. Especially when you are told that someone is resorting to Domestic Violence.

    Maybe that wasn’t the case that he really didn’t physically or mentally hurt you and if that is true that it never happened then for me I am sad that this has been blown so out of control for you and your family, But more for women that are being abused out there that need more then anything a group of people like this to stand by them and defend them all the way to the point that they will make them angry to help.

    I say to you now Good luck with your healing, If you need help and you need to talk to someone then let me know you can contact me at anytime. (polargemini@gmail.com)

  44. Monkeh

    I went to sleep last night thinking about this post, about Roscoe’s words, and for some reason, I came back today to reread it before work.
    Heather if your relationship was as stable and loving as you say, this post really shouldn’t be enough to upset it. Maybe it would be something to talk about, but it should just be able to ride the wave.
    If you had an on line affair though, and he has “physical reactions”, it would lead me to believe that there is more to the story.
    You are a happy, strong, intelligent, independent, capable woman. I am too. I supported my family (including my husband), by myself, for almost 15 years. Not sure why I’m still in my fucked up relationship, but after 22 years, let me tell you, it gets harder and harder to leave.
    Just saying.

  45. Amy

    Wow, Miss Ann, what is this, the first time you have commented here in what… weeks? Months?

    Looks like drama just brings you running, doesn’t it? Don’t worry about anyone outing you, it’s ok, everyone already knows you’re the crazy cat lady who spies on her neighbors.

    So what is it (because I know you’ll have to come running back with something snarky) are you pro-spousal abuse or just anti-Adam?

  46. Becky

    I don’t know where to start here. I can’t join this discussion without telling parts of my own story. By that, I mean that my perception and reaction to things said here by everyone is tainted by my past.

    Heather, staying in or getting out of an abusive relationship is not determined by strength, courage or intelligence. It’s a choice you make. You chose to stay and allow it to continue. The only way it stops is to remove one of the parties involved.

    Abuse is such a broad, wide reaching term. There are too many forms of abuse to even begin to list or discuss. Not all abuse is physical or violent. Not all abuse leaves visible marks. Not all abuse is even recognized as abuse. Lack of trust, lack of privacy, lack of respect are all forms of abuse.

    If your marriage was as good as you claim it is, and you truly want it to work, then you wouldn’t have had the affair. The affair gave you something Roscoe couldn’t or wasn’t. Instead of seeking it from him, you chose to go elsewhere. The affair was not the problem, it was a symptom of a bigger problem.

    Roscoe, it’s very easy and very safe to call Adam out from a great distance. You can talk the big talk, but I don’t see you jumping a plane to talk man to man, face to face with Adam. You have suggested he send tickets for Heather, or better yet, come to you. Better to call him out and have him show up on your home turf where you have support and back up because you can’t/won’t face him alone.

    Heather, one last thing, If you didn’t want any of this known, you shouldn’t have told a soul. You called out for help, knowing word would spread. Not because we love the drama, but because these people love you. They care about you. They did all of this from a place of love and concern for you. Roscoe knows this and is trying to ‘weed them out of your life’ so that you have no support. That is the first thing abusers do. Isolate, then destroy.

    I’ve been where you are. I got out. You can too. There are more victims here than just you.

    http://msbatman.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/unwilling-victims/

  47. Coal Miner's Granddaughter

    OK, this is what I see, Heather, based on this post and the following comments. I don’t know you. The only thing we share is a first name. In seeing your comments to this post, I clicked on the link to your site. I found a white page with Times New Roman font stating that your site is closed.

    I’ve been in an abusive relationship before. He never hit me, but I broke it off before he had a chance. He did make sure, though, to isolate me from friends and family. No, he didn’t make the phone calls or write the letters, separating me from those I loved and who loved me back. He made me so uncomfortable and fed me so many lies that I chose to cut off all those wonderful people. It took me 6 months to figure it out, but I did.

    If this weren’t an abusive relationship (and I mean abusive to include not just physical but also mental/emotional/spiritual), your blog would have been online, stating to the effect, “Hey, it’s Heather. Going through a rough patch. Need to repair my marriage/whatever. I’ll be back when I’m able. Keep me in your thoughts.” Instead, you have completely shut yourself off. Completely. You’ve done the same thing I did 14 years ago when told to do so by my then-boyfriend. Don’t shut yourself off. Get yourself fixed. If you truly want, get your marriage fixed. Roscoe, get help as well. And use typicalredhead.com to help others in this same situation. You could so much more instead of hiding behind a screen and blaming Adam and all of us for your marital woes.

    Don’t place the blame on all of us (friends, acquaintances, and strangers) for the problems you are having right now. Don’t blame Adam. You have only yourself to blame for staying in this relationship. Roscoe, from what I can see where I’m typing, you’re scum. Plain and simple. No amount of comments to this post on your part will change my mind.

    Heather. I will have Thanksgiving dinner with my loved ones tomorrow. In giving thanks for my blessings, I will also give thanks that you are alive and give thanks that I’m not married to Roscoe. My name, too, is Heather. My e-mail address is coalminersgd@gmail.com. My computer will be on all day tomorrow (as it is everyday) and I will check my e-mail throughout the day (as I do everyday). Feel free to shoot me a few words. I’ll even give you my phone number, my physical address, directions to my home, and I’ll give you a shoulder and a friendship.

    Don’t cut yourself off. Open up to someone, anyone, with good intentions, who wants to help.

  48. heather

    The point none of you are hearing is that my “friend” put very private things about MY life on a very public blog where people I know in real life read. My “friend” put my husband’s name and our email out in the public and invited people to harass us. My “friend” left the post up despite the fact that I asked my “friend” to respect me and remove it. By doing that, new problems have been created (no, not within my marriage) and I have to deal with them. It made things worse (again, NOT within in my marriage).

    Sure. Blame my husband. He sent the email. He was hurt when he sent it (hurt because of MY actions). He was hoping Adam would step up as a real friend instead of making it very clear that he has no respect for his friend’s marriage. The thing people are forgetting here is that I have been completely disrespected so Adam can have fun picking on my husband. My right to privacy has been taken away by my “friend” because of his anger toward my husband. In the end, I’m the one who is actually getting hurt (no, not physically and not by my husband).

    I’m hurt by the fact that all these “caring” people don’t give a fuck what I need right now because it’s more fun to assume my husband is a wife beater and to join in with the drama and create more along the way. It really is ironic that everyone “cares” and is so “concerned” but won’t listen to a damn thing I need and STILL has made no attempt to contact me to learn the truth.

    Like I said, drama clearly beats friendship.

  49. Coal Miner's Granddaughter

    You know what, Heather? I would contact you but, again, your Web site is shut down. The link to your name in the comments section of this blog gives only your Web address, again a dead-end.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t want a total stranger contacting you. So, please see my above comment and again, my e-mail is coalminersgd@gmail.com if you want a complete, third-party, not involved in your personal life opinion.

  50. Miss

    Holy crap. This is the most extreme case of backtracking I have ever seen an abused person do. There had to have been some point in time when Heather came to Adam and other friends on the net and said things about her husband that painted him as an abuser, that painted her as a victim. I dont know anything about it, but I do know that it was not one incident, that the idiot does confess to, that brought out this much concern over one person’s well being. If it was ONE TIME, the concerned comments from “friends” would not be so extreme. If Heather’s marriage was so stable, she wouldnt be boo hooing about this post so often. Reading it now, I dont see her husbands last name or email address displayed. In fact, truth be told, if Heather herself would not have commented, the majority of us would have been none the wiser as to who this refers to. So Heather outed herself in the long run.

    My best advise to people who care for Heather, leave her be. She might not care about herself enough right now to listen to a word anyone has to say. It’s obvious that this is a nightmere to her and in every comment, she is backtracking and accusing Adam of ruining things for her and all her husbands future work prospects (LOL) because of this very PUBLIC site. I know Adam’s blog is awesome, but when did it become MSN or AOL? Just save your breath. Send your well wishes and offers of help but they are falling upon deaf ears. In fact, she is writing all of you off as we speak. It’s sad, but its true. The real sad thing is, when he has another “physical reaction” to something she does and she ends up in the hospital, there might not be anyone there to want to help because she isn’t taking their advise now. We dig our own graves sometimes…

    No matter what the truth of the matter is, I wish you the best of luck Heather.

  51. Sheila

    I will not say anything in regards to the content of the emails published. I will say that I believe that if the husband’s name and email address were going to be published, I believe permission should of been asked first. And since the wife has made it clear that she would like this information to not be made public, I believe that we should respect her feelings. I’m not saying that this should of never been posted… I’m just saying that every persons privacy should of been taken into consideration first.

    Adam, I do respect and appreciate the way you responded to the husbands emails to you. And, I feel that posting these emails may of helped someone else deal with their own situations.

    I wish all of you a peaceful Thanksgiving.

  52. Gemini

    I agree with Coalminersgd…

    If you would rather that we not offer our caring uninformed comments here then contact us tell us the truth off line so to speak.

    To tell you the truth I DON’T WANT TO BELIEVE THE HYPE… cause that would mean something worse.

  53. liquid

    it’s interesting that he sought you
    out with such intent
    worked so hard to vilify you and tear you down in his emails.
    hoping perhaps you’d believe it if he said those things enough.

    for what? suggesting she get counseling
    helping her get out of the house for a safe place to be (and a quiet place to collect herself)?
    gosh..well i suppose that does make you the anti-christ.

    abusers isolate.
    they poison the abused’s ear to any
    perspective other than the one he/she wants
    to project.
    anyone who challenges this illusion must be
    ‘weeded’ out.

  54. heather

    Please, remove this post. Please stop bashing my husband and my life. Please respect my privacy. Please show me that you truly are a real friend and respect ME and what I am begging you to do.

  55. AnnieB

    Wow, what a clusterfuck.

    I think if I were your friend and I had received an email from Roscoe, my first instinct would be to call you and say wtf is up, why is he doing this?

    But that would mainly be because I wouldn’t want to deal with him or really get that involved. My advice to you is be thankful that you having such caring friends because I would have told you a long time ago to just shut the fuck up already. If you’re not happy, then leave. For whatever reason.

    I don’t know Adam all that well, but I do know that he is a kind, honorable person and feel sure his only motivation was to help. If he is misguided then well, who’s to blame for that?

    Well, good luck. Look for you both on YouTube?

  56. Sodapop

    Heather, I had no idea what was going on. I stopped reading comments back at #21. I emailed you last week wondering where you were, I never got a response.

    Whatever is happening is obviously very painful for you. I just wanted to make sure you were OK.

    Email me when you get a chance.

  57. jester

    Guess what… I had not the slightest clue who this post was about until Heather outed herself. Seems to me that that the people here who knew who this post was about were just fine in keeping that part private.

    Heather keeps parroting her husband’s words “Be a friend” which frankly speaks of just how manipulative he really is.

    What is lost on her is that all of the people who have been commenting here have been supportive of her, regardless of what SHE may have done.

    You want phone calls and emails, Heather? Post your number and address. You want someone in your area to come scoop you up and rescue you? Post your address. I’m sure that someone here is within driving distance.

    Your husband is clearly attempting to cause a rift between you and your friends. I don’t think I’m wrong in assuming that the majority of your friends are online because you’ve been isolated from real time friends by your husband.

    I’m sure that you are feeling embarrassed that now there are a hundred people who now know about your situation. I’m sure that you are worried about how that will affect your home life.

    I’m also sure that if you don’t stand up, take at least a piece of the wisdom being dispensed here and distance yourself from the situation you will end up being a statistic.

    If you want to fault Adam for trying to prevent that from happening, you just go ahead and do that. But never say that he (and by extension WE) didn’t do everything he could.

  58. Jamie

    Long time lurker, first time commenter. This guy sounds like a real tool. Good for you for stepping up for her and offering her help.

    As a person who has undergone DV support training, and if she reads this and has a desire to get out, contact the national domestic abuse hotline (800-799-7233). They will help with referals for counseling, getting out and ways to make your escape.

    By the way, in certain states, staying in a DV relationship with a child is grounds for filing of child abuse charges–on both persons. I wish your friend luck with getting out, getting help and staying safe.

  59. heather

    The ironic thing is, this is blown so unrealistically out of proportion because everyone keeps wanting to hang on to the drama of it and by doing so are creating real problems for the person they are so “caring” about. It seems that people are more interested in trying to destroy a marriage (that they know NOTHING about) than truly helping someone who needed a friend. Some of you didn’t know who I am until I left a comment, but a lot of you did and so will my coworkers who know my husbands name that was left in the post.

    Lucky for you all. You get to add to the drama and create more stress for the person you “care” about, then turn off your computers and go on with your lives while the person you’re trying to “help” is left to clean up the mess. It really must be nice to get off on my expense today. I’ve been sacrificed in order to prove some point to my husband. MY feelings and MY privacy were never considered.

    None of you have any idea what goes on in my life when the computer is turned off. None of you know anything about my husband other than an email and you have the nerve to pass judgment like that for the sake of drama. This post and the comments are very irresponsible.

    What kind of friends go out of their way to publicly humiliate their “friend” and their “friend’s” family? What kind of friend invites other people into their friend’s private life without considering how it would effect them?

    Not the kind of friends I want.

  60. Mr. Fabulous

    Heather–Enough.

    I swore I would not comment on this post again today, but I can no longer just watch you deny deny deny.

    You are my friend, but Adam is my friend as well. You say that people don’t know what it’s like in your home and in your life. True, not everyone does. But Adam and I DO.

    We know better than anyone else what went down last month, because you spoke to him at length at the hotel and you and I must have exchanged a hundred texts that day. All done, by the way, in an effort to be your friend.

    And we both have had many discussions with you over the time we have all known each other. Adam has not misrepresented anything here.

    You can try to re-write history all you want, but it won’t change things.

    I wish you the best.

  61. liquid

    i don’t believe for a second avitable (or anyone else here for that matter) posted anything here for the sake of drama.

    it wasn’t avitable who revealed your identity.

    no one here is having a grand old time at your expense. if you can’t see that, the light at the end of the tunnel isn’t getting any closer.

  62. Anonymous

    Heather: I am being sincere when I say I do not wish to cause you pain or suffering. Nor do I want to be hurtful to your husband. I can tell you no one is “getting off” on this. It’s one of the most un-fun things I have ever seen. This is not fun for Adam, and he is not trying to hurt you. No one else here is, either. This is NOT drama. This is life. Shit like this is as American as mom and apple pie. As someone else also noted today, it is not as if Adam’s site is TMZ. He has not exposed you for the whole world to see. And you know what? Even if he did, people here see a woman they are ADMIRE for trying to save her marriage – even while they know it ain’t likely to work out. Humiliate you? Hardly. The outpouring of adoration for you here is a testament to how much people respect you. Last, what concerns me most is that your posts all afternoon have been peppered with the EXACT WORDS YOUR HUSBAND USED IN HIS EMAILS TO ADAM. This leads me to believe that you are indeed buying into your husband’s narrative of events. And please believe me when I say this – I read your husband’s emails very carefully. He is excusing and defending himself, and you are defending him too. There is no such thing as blowing a “physical reaction” out of proportion. If he spit on you from 10 feet across the room, that’s abuse. It simply IS. If you want to save your marriage, you have every right to try. But believe me, please, when I tell you that what a bunch of people in a computer are saying or not saying about your marriage is the LEAST of your worries – or should be. People don’t get fired or lose respect because they are in your situation. What they get is support and respect. That is what ALL of this is.

    Again, Heather, I am not trying to cause you distress. I don’t know you. I have never seen you blog. I have no power to hurt your marriage or your career or you husband’s – and I have no wish to. I say all of this to direct your attention to the fact that you are OVER reacting to this post, and this stream of comments – and UNDER reacting to the thing you need be most concerned with – namely, how to discern whether you and your husband can patch this thing up – and whether you should even try. If this is bothering you so much, try to step away. It’s one post on one day in the life of the internet. Know that if you choose to come back, there are lots of people waiting here who will not grow weary of trying to give you the help and support you need.

    Again, please don’t take my commenting again as disrespect. What you are going through is heartbreaking. I acknowledge that you feel violated – but you did come forward yourself and say who you are. No one made you do that. Try to see the compassion and respect people here have for you. Sure, you have a mess to clean up, and none of us can lift the broom. But people have professed themselves willing, over and over again, to encourage and support you in any way they can. Try to let that in instead of panicking about the “impact” of this post. The impact has been, for the most part, to reveal to you how many people stand ready to listen to your story – and help you in ANY way you need. Their offers are not conditional on your leaving your marriage, either. ANY and ALL help is offered here. I, for one, never like to see a person give up on a marriage if there is hope of saving it. That conviction only comes under fire when one party in the marriage is in danger of physical harm. You say it’s worth trying to fix – ok. I believe you. Go for it. But please, try to see this day for what it is: people caring about you and wanting to help you. You might not like their methods, but their intentions are not evil – quite the opposite.

  63. Turnbaby

    I wasn’t going to do this but….

    I was just getting to know you when the stuff started so I have no qualms about not contacting you. With the things your husband was doing it seemed that it would be worse to try. And considering the first things he did was take down your blog and myspace who knew if you would get any messages? And who knew if you wouldn’t be worse off ?

    Actually Heather what I know about your husband from what you have said and done and what he has said and done. You both have done it PUBLICLY on your blog.

    His first contact with me was a really classy moment in response to an offhand comment I made about the Ohio State band–remember that?Very niiiice comment to someone he didn’t know. Of course he had no clue he’d bitten off more than he could chew when he tried to belittle me. He finally acknowledged that–but I can’t show anyone because he took your blog down.

    Remember that–taking your blog down and then removing any post that was you ‘venting’ about him “the genius” and you all having trouble in your marriage? This was on your public blog.

    And here’s the funny thing about Google Reader—once a blog is fed into it it tends to stick there.

    Comments and some pictures don’t survive. But most posts do.

  64. Turnbaby

    Oh and one other thing

    I think the real “heather” may have posted two comments on this

    I think the remainder bear the earmarks of someone else–no matter what name they have been posted under.

  65. rexy

    Sheer chance I stumbled into this today.

    Heather,I just wanted to say that you’ve brought this all down upon yourself. It’s very tempting to use people you don’t know as validation meters. People use the internet for this because they can manipulate their situation around to the point of view that most benefits them. It’s always nice to have people caring about you, albeit at a distance. We all need some stroking, physical or mental, in our lives.

    But I don’t see you owning up to it at all. There’s no saying you might have just exaggerated things a little, in retrospect. You are probably way too embarassed to back down now and Avitable is probably pretty pissed because he went out of his way to help you, truly believing the version you told him of things.

    I can understand why you used the line you did but I can’t understand why you won’t own your own role in all of this. For sure, portray yourself as helpless victim as much as you like, but don’t start buying into other people’s narrowmindedness and don’t ever assume that simply trying to justify your previous statements is enough to let you off the hook.

    Your husband comes across, courtesy of your deliberately slanted peek at him, as a controlling mindless abuser. And yet you are staying with him? Its obvious that there is more to your marriage than just the bits that other people can see, and its also obvious that you think it worthwhile to keep struggling on.

    I can’t see this ending well, myself. It might play for a bit but sooner or later you are going to repeat the whole situation. Internet ego stroking is very addictive.

  66. Girl, Dislocated

    I can only be reasonably sure of two things:

    1. Whether it was right or wrong to post this, Avitable did not do so to create drama, and, judging by his actions last month, his main concern seems to be for the safety of his friend.

    2. The only people who know the 100% truth about what’s going on in a relationship are the two people who are in it. I’m not one of them, nor am I someone that has talked to either of them, so I’m in no position to comment on their relationship.

    That said, as several people have already mentioned, it’s not uncommon for people not to tell the complete truth about their relationships. I was one of those women who make excuses for their SOs. “Yes, he shoved me–BUT he didn’t break any bones, but he had a bad day at work, but he said he was sorry, but he can be really nice when he’s not being mean…” etc. etc. I eventually ended up being cut off from my friends because of him as well. So, I can see why people are concerned, especially those who have experienced this. (It makes me incredibly sad that so many commenters can relate to this!)

    Heather, I have no idea if that’s what’s going on or not, but whatever the case may be, I’m praying for health and happiness for you. If you can have that with your husband, then great. If not, then I hope you get out soon and safely.

  67. Tracy

    These comments break my heart.

    I gotta say I agree with Miss Ann. Posting this was wrong. If Heather wants it taken down, take it down. Respect Heather that much, at least. You’ve got your drama. Let it go.

    And Amy, before you jump down my throat cause I rarely comment, I admit it, I don’t comment often at all here. I’m not an everyday reader, but a concerned friend pointed out the post to me because this friend knows I care about Heather.

    How many of you can say you’re in constant contact with Heather? Any of you??

    Let it go.

  68. CP

    Adam…I love you, heart and soul, you know that. You are a dear friend. However, I am with Miss Ann on this one. This shouldn’t be on your blog. This is something that you deal with Heather privately over. She is feeling humiliated now and this is not what friends do to one another. You be a friend from behind the curtains, behind the scenes…but you know damn well that putting someones life out on display without their knowledge can be very damaging.

    I have been in Heathers position before. I had an affair on my ex husband and rallied all my internet friends to get involved in my drama. It was stupid of me, but I was very worked up and upset at the time. While I do agree that this “Roscoe” is a piece of shit if he DID hit her, I also suspect that much of this to do has to do with Heather herself. We can’t always be the womans advocate, Adam, because sometimes, there are women who are just seeking attention. She strikes me as one of them because she opted to “out” herself. She has insisted time and again that she is not in an abusive relationship. No matter if she is or isn’t, you aren’t going to change her mind any time soon. If anything, you threw more kindling on an already rampantly burning fire. If you did something kind for her, good karma will come your way. You did it with the best of intentions. However, I don’t really see that it should be up here for the world to see. If she is asking you, in the name of the SAME FRIENDSHIP that made you do this gesture of kindness in the first place, to remove the post, then I would consider that. Yes, 99 replies is very respectable and wow, quite a hit to the ol’ blog…but is that what we are really here for?

    I would seriously consider her motives before readily jumping to her side. I can tell you with the most severe honesty that I used to play up to the men in my cyber life because they would jump through proverbial hoops to get to be the one to “save” me. There was nothing wrong with my marriage. I was just a total attention whore…and I suspect that Heather is too. Again, I am not saying that Roscoe deserves a break, because if he did hit her, then his name should be put on a post office wall and he should be stoned to death in the town square.

    But this has gone a little too far, Adam. The girl has been outed. The humiliation is unparalleled…and if she IS a victim of violence or abuse, damn straight she is going to get a helluva beating over this one.

    Just playing the devils advocate here, but I wish you would reconsider this post…or at very least, wipe away the comments where most of the damage has occurred.

    I love you, Adam…you know I do. Please just think about it.

    CP.

  69. CP

    Then again, why don’t I practice what I am preaching and shut the fuck up and mind my own business…

    *goes back to playing with a raw turkey*

    I know. I suck. But this all looks waaaaaaay too familiar to me. I still want to have your hairy babies, Adam. Remember that.

    CP.

  70. franky

    Ok… let’s clear up things, and also end them.

    I’m the young guy from England.

    And I know much, much more than anyone does, even more than Avi does. And I will post a response on my blog.

    Closed comments.

    Nah… screw all that… go away.
    My past and private life is mine. Heather’s past and private life is hers. It’s none of all your business.

    The blogging mob is not worthy my time or affection.

    Some people have answered here in the comments. People who know me since years, and loyal as I am, although they might not expect it, I value friendships (and still read all of them).

    Hence why, now… all go fuck your own business and let friends be friends without making your own soap story out of it.
    Go away.

    People who want to contact/correct me surely will find a way. If not, just as fine.
    Life goes on, internet dramaless it even feels better. 🙂

    No matter who was right and who isn’t.

    Go fuck yourself now.

    Namaste.

  71. CP

    Turnbaby –

    I don’t know. None of us will ever know that for sure. Only Roscoe and Heather will know the truth. What I do know is that at least two things are going on right now.

    1) Heather outed herself in order to defend the person who is or is not beating her. By posting this personal information, and then, having commentary done by the masses…we are only inflamming a volatile situation.

    2) I believe Heather did make that request. As a woman who was formerly abused for years, I would do anything to make my abuser seem like a better man than he was. Most of the time, it was because he forced me to…either verbally or physically. Other times, it was because I was a complete drama queen and looking for the attention of others. That’s a hard thing to admit about yourself, but that was me a long time ago, before I located my self esteem.

    Adam is a man among men. I know he would do anything on the planet for his friends and it may very well be that his intentions were played upon. To me, it seems a certain amount of backpeddling was done here. There is no doubt in my mind that this person hit Heather at least once. At very least. That right there is reason enough for someone, anyone to get involved. Lord knows I would have been so gracious if someone was around to save me when Tony was beating my ass. But, I also have to wonder…what was Heather’s intention in all of this? And further, if it is even marginally true, the abuse, then why inflame the situation? I know that if Tony had read all of this and saw that so many people were mocking him…he would have beat me within an inch of my life.

    So, even if this is him posting as her, are we really doing Heather a service here?

    I think you’re awesome too.

  72. Avitable

    I’ve decided that leaving the comments open for a full day is enough time to let people comment and offer their support.

    Heather, you’ve got almost 100 people here who are willing to listen to you or talk to you at anytime. Please don’t hesitate to make use of them next time you’re feeling scared and threatened, whether or not you’re physically injured. With exceptions like Donna, who would rather we ignore what’s going on in your personal life even if it’s harmful and dangerous to you, you have a list of people who love and support you. No matter what.

    Thanks for keeping it relatively civil, people. Serious time for Avitable land is over.

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