I'm choosing to post this series of emails between the abusive husband of a blogger I know and myself. After he beat her, I paid for her to go stay in a hotel room for a night and encouraged her to get counseling, get an attorney, and get free. Unfortunately, she's accepted his apology again and again, and it kills me to see that she's forgiven him. That was about a month ago.
Yesterday, out of the blue, I received this email:
from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 19, 2007 8:56 AM
subject From XXXX's HusbandAdam,
You don't know me, but you certainly know of me. I'm Roscoe, XXXX's husband. I believe you know me more as the "controlling one," or as a number of other less flattering names. And of course, why wouldn't you? You have taken my wife's venting at face value. You've also taken the words of a young man in England who had a sexual interest in my wife at face value. You then handed out potentially life changing advice, called yourself a friend, then turned off your computer and went about your evenings, except for an occasional text or email.
First, be clear that you do not have the whole picture of our relationship. So while you enjoy the drama of a physical reaction I chose a number of weeks ago, you have made little effort to understand why. Is there ever an excuse for a man to be physical with his wife? No. Period. If I knew you better I would explain the discoveries I made that day. I would explain that everything I believed about my marriage was destroyed that day, and I would tell you why (though you are in the unique position of knowing a little bit of that in the situation with the young man in England, but certainly you do not know everything, including what came after him). But in reality, the rest is none of your business. As were many of the personal things my wife shared with you and her other internet "friends" about me.
And oddly enough, while you enjoyed the vision of me as controlling and abusive, did it ever strike you that she had absolute freedom on the internet. Did it ever occur to you that she was free to write about masturbation, sex toys, threesomes or whatever crossed her mind? She was able to have the time to post on everyone's blogs, write her blog, respond to texts, or whatever else went on without my ever checking up on her. Hours and hours a day. She could laugh and comment [EDITED TO PROTECT HER IDENTITY], and I never stepped in, despite a number of very sexual comments about her made by other men. Pretty strange behavior for a woman strictly controlled, don't you think?
But it was much more fun for you and her other internet "friends" to feed a drama, then watch more drama unfold. None of you lived up to your billing as a "friend" and dug to find out anything beyond information that would fulfill your illusion of drama. And you, of all her friends, had the most unique opportunity to step in and find out what was going on with the young man in England because you were directly in touch with him. But instead you stepped back, went into attorney mode, and then only after more drama unfolded did you step back in as a "friend."
I do not blame you for my wife's actions with the young man in England, or in the much more serious situation that occurred after him. However, I do take issue with is your insistence that you call yourself my wife's friend. Taking a person's rants at face value and handing out reactive advice makes you a dangerous acquaintance, not a friend.
You are married. Someday you will have a rough year. It happens to every married couple. Would you want your wife to have a friend like you around when that happens? Or would you want someone around for her who genuinely makes an effort to listen to the initial rants and venting, then makes a genuine effort to find out the truth so they can offer true support and friendship? Who would you choose when your wife someday seeks advice outside the safety of your marriage? Do you think your wife is immune from people like you, like the young man in England, like others who I will not mention?
In closing, none of this is your fault. I'm writing to you only because you had inside information months and months ago and you backed away, but still called yourself a friend to my wife. You are still free to text, call or email my wife. It truly is not under my control and I'm not asking it to be. I just ask that if you do any of those things, fulfill your claim that you are her friend. Make an effort to understand what that word means.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
It almost sounds rational and reasonable, doesn't it? Almost, except for glossing over the "physical reaction", which included dragging her across the room by her hair.
I replied:
from Adam Avitable
to RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net],
date Nov 19, 2007 9:45 AM
subject Re: From XXXX's HusbandI only backed away because I had no choice. Due to my distance, I can only be a friend by phone, email or text. I'm not close enough to be otherwise. Additionally, I'm not your friend - I'm XXXXX's friend. That does mean that I take her word at face value. And I always will. for as long as she will have me as a friend.
For some reason, whether it was a spam issue, incompetence when it comes to the computer, or just plain stupidity, the wife-beater didn't receive my email. Many people might have dropped it. Not him. Here's the email I got this morning:
from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 10:22 AM
subject From XXXX's HusbandAdam,
No response to my letter yesterday? Actually, it doesn't really surprise me. You're just like the majority of XXXX's drama seeking cyber friends - as soon as the light gets turned on, you scurry for your nest in the scum under the cupboards.
Who among you really ever intended to back up anything you told her? You think some legal advice and a hotel room would keep her company? Feed her son? Do you all really think a "hey girl, call me if you need to talk" is worth a crap when she's really down? When her marriage is really in crisis?
You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The "controlling, abusive" husband who has supported her all along.
You're worthless, just like most of her cyber friends.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
Now we get to see a little more of his true personality. Now he says his wife told lies about him, even though he admitted earlier to a "physical reaction", aka shoving her to the ground and throwing things. It's very common for a bully and an abuser to try to destroy the victim's support, and he freely admits that he's trying to get rid of all of her friends. Such a loving husband!
Our next exchange of emails went like this (my reply is at the bottom, and his reply to that is above it):
from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 11:47 AM
subject Re: From XXXXX's HusbandAdam,
Send me a copy of that response yesterday, would you? I don't have it on record. It absolutely did not come to my email. Period.
And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife's life in the interest of preserving my family.
I anxiously await your reply (that I expect should include a copy of yesterday's reply if it indeed really exists).
Best Regards,
Roscoe—– Original Message —–
From: Adam Avitable
To: RoscoeP
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: From XXXX's HusbandI replied to you yesterday within twenty minutes of receiving your email. I see that this email shows what type of person you really are.
Then he replies with:
Here's an idea. Since you have no problem with everyone being out in the light on these issues, and to assure that I get all of your responses, why don't you and I communicate through my wife's gmail account at XXXXX@gmail.com
I told XXXXX I would be contacting you and she told me it would be fine if I used her account. She says it is very reliable and she too is curious to know how you feel about these issues.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
Ooh, doesn't that sound like a good idea? The problem is, you see, that this bully has not only removed his wife from her friends, but he also checks her email, made her take down her Facebook account, and reads everything that she types or sends.
I replied and told him that since I've already replied, I didn't have anything left to say, and he had this gem:
No you didn't respond, Adam. If you did you would send a copy.
You are the coward with self-serving agendas that I have assumed all along. I had a gut bad feeling about you months and months ago, but I never tried to interfere with your communicating with my wife. Never even suggested she not contact you, respond to your pseudo-porno posts about her, nothing. I know it's much more fun to think of me as controlling, though, isn't it?
No, you are the one who has been revealed, Adam. Self-serving. Coward. If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I'll get back to cleaning up the real mess.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
I wonder if by "cleaning up the real mess" he means that he's going to teach her a lesson? Beat her some more? Or will he just belittle her and call her stupid again? I'm sure he thoroughly enjoys that.
Finally, after I give him my original reply again and say that I feel sorry for my friend and her son, he leaves me with this:
from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 12:46 PM
subject Re: From XXXX's HusbandYes, distance. It is so easy to make claims, then use distance as an excuse. I've never done that with my wife. When she was living in her car, I gave her a place to stay. When she needed to get away from a group of people intent on encouraging destructive behaviors, I found a way for her to get a thousand miles away to get stable. When she was ready to come back home, I drove a thousand miles to pick her up and I gave her a place to live. When she was not allowed to have any visitation with her son, I helped her prove her stability to the courts and I fought for her rights and helped her eventually get those rights. When xx's excuse for a biological father finally dropped him off and said he did not want him anymore, I gladly accepted the opportunity to adopt xx and to be his father. Forever. Regardless of what happens to XXX and me. When XXXX wanted to go to school I let her take over two years off from work to focus only on school despite our financial situation at the time. When XXXX has gone through bouts of deep depression that have lasted for literally years, I found a way to keep our family together despite her destructive behavior.
So yes, Adam, feel sorry for XXXX and xx. Take everything at face value. Good job. Good for you. Keep using distance as an excuse and assuming you are rescuing a lost soul by contributing an occasional phone call and email. Meanwhile, some hard work is being done by other people.
I'm no saint, but I have never used distance as an excuse. And even after XXXXX has had another stretch of destructive behavior and collected another batch of drama-enabling friends, I am still here. Though, thankfully, XXXXXX finally seems to be coming out of her fog and she sees things a bit differently. I am hopeful this time.
You should never assume you know the whole story.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
I know that the blogger, if she reads this, will be upset that it got posted, and I'm sorry for that, but this type of sociopathic abuse should not be kept quiet - it needs to be discussed and dissected and examined, so that these types of bullies and cowards don't feel like they can treat their wives as if they are just another piece of furniture.
Any thoughts?
UPDATED TO ADD:
I wrote this post before our entire conversation was over. Here are the remaining two emails, first my reply, where I finally got sick of dealing with his shit, and where he showed his true colors even more:
from Adam Avitable
to RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net],
date Nov 20, 2007 1:11 PM
subject Re: From XXXX's HusbandDid you physically abuse her? Or have a "physical reaction", as you so delicately put it?
Since I know that the answer is yes, I don't need to know any more of the story. Even if there was any doubt on XXXX's side of the story, your emails here show that you are a bully and a coward who thinks that rescuing XXXXX from the bad life she had before entitles you to treat her like property. You're not a man - you're a petulant, small-minded boy who used to kill cats and squirrels, I'm sure.
Why don't you let XXXXX come visit Orlando with xxx and see if she comes back? Because you know what would happen.
from RoscoeP [hra@XXXXXXX.net]
date Nov 20, 2007 1:39 PM
subject Re: From XXXX's HusbandI have never physically abused my wife.
I find it almost humorous that you assume I consider her property. You are not nearly as bright as you are skilled in creating argument.
I am only pleased that you are showing your true colors for XXXX to read in your own words.
But if she should not see through to what you are, and she should choose to come to Orlando, then she has that freedom. You already offered her a ticket, right? I'm sure you would throw one in for xxxx, fair to say? Send them. Indeed.
Of course it will then be clear as to what your true agenda is, and I sincerely believe XXXXX will now, finally, see that too. You are self-serving.
Incidentally, if I indeed were the abusive, controlling husband you would like to believe, isn't your approach rather dangerous? Shouldn't you conceal your plan to send my wife and son tickets so I don't abusively control her and beat her? Is it wise to challenge an unstable, controlling individual's manhood? Wouldn't you actually be encouraging violence against the very person (my wife) whom you claim to have a genuine concern? Wouldn't you all but be assuring a beating like never before by intentionally enraging me?
You see? This is why it is now quite clear just how self-serving you are. You care about nothing more than your own savior image and it is truly you projecting yourself upon me when you claim I see her as a piece of property. It is truly you who view her as some sort of property, and it's ironic that you would set her up for physical abuse to serve your own end if I truly were the abusive person you would like to believe. Isn't that interesting how that works?
Through that you have really brought some clarity to this and I am anxious for XXXXX to see for herself :)
Best Regards,
Roscoe
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Comments by Amanda
This breaks my heart. I have thoughts. Most of them are not happy thoughts. Let me sort through them and I will post more later. Also, I agree. BULLIES ARE FUCKING COWARDS!
Comments by Angel
*claps hands*
Violence! Violence!
Comments by annie
It's a little hard to believe that he's no bully when his tactics with you were ALL bully. If someone doesn't answer my email, I certainly don't call them names.
I love your short responses though.....yeah, you're such a drama whore....*eyeroll*.
Comments by Hilly
The unfortunate truth in this situation is that she's going to stay with him because he plays the same mindfucking games with her, and they work. That's why he's trying it with you - because why not, if that method is successful with his wife, you know?
You posting this can have several outcomes. One: she reads this, gets pissed at you for posting it, even though there's no way anyone would be able to identify her, and she cuts you completely out. Two: She sees this and SEES her situation (sometimes it takes seeing what you're going through in a different light to actually have a clear idea), and takes the initiative to get the hell out. Three: She's pissed at you for posting this, but still stays with her guy, and nothing really changes.
I hope that, whatever the outcome, it's positive. She and her son need to leave, stat.
Comments by Squeaky Wheel
Being the creature I have been trained to be I have a little psychological fun in store for old Roscoe.
Whatever XXXXXX foibles and faults in life that does NOT give that controlling fucker free rein to physically abuse her.
Unfortunately only she can get herself out.
Ok Adam if you don't want the forum here let me know
Comments by Turnbaby
It's just too bad that someone doesn't choose the "drama of a physical reaction" with his sorry, cowardly, pathetic ass.
And, I know you are worried that the unnamed blogger will be angry with you or not speak to you anymore, but the fact is, if she chooses to do so it is only because she is either in complete denial or feels she has no other choice.
The fact is, with all the media coverage of domestic violence for anyone to not understand that there IS a way out that there ARE other alternatives and that NO ONE, regardless of what they may or MAY NOT have done deserves to be treated like this - is just sad. Very sad.
And, regardless of all the excuses in the world, this pathetic excuse for a man should be behind bars right now and she should be under the protection of a restraining order.
He can excuse his behavior all he likes, but the fact remains, bullies are cowards and I doubt that he would have the nerve to say any of this to your face, he would probably just cower, pee himself and then go home and beat the shit out of his wife to make himself feel bigger and better.
Karma is a bitch and he'll pay for it one way or the other. They all do. Personally, I hope he gets his with his mouth muffled in a crappy mattress in a cell with big Bubba right behind him.
Comments by Amy
BTW, I hope everyone realizes that you left his real email address in your copies above.
*HINT*
*HINT*
Comments by Amy
Okay, I love XXXX(your friend whose identity is protected here) as a friend with all of my heart. I can't sit here in silence. I am a former victim of domestic violence, and since then, I have learned a lot. Here's my take:
"So while you enjoy the drama of a physical reaction I chose a number of weeks ago, you have made little effort to understand why. Is there ever an excuse for a man to be physical with his wife? No. Period. If I knew you better I would explain the discoveries I made that day."
He states that there is never a reason for a man to "be physical" with his wife, and then goes on to try to justify what he did by claiming that if he knew you better he would tell you what he discovered that day. If there is no reason to be physical with your wife (Which there really isn't. EVER.), the reasoning behind what he did DOES NOT MATTER.
"despite a number of very sexual comments about her made by other men. Pretty strange behavior for a woman strictly controlled, don't you think?"
How would he know about these comments if he weren't checking up on her?
"I do not blame you for my wife's actions with the young man in England, or in the much more serious situation that occurred after him. However, I do take issue with is your insistence that you call yourself my wife's friend. Taking a person's rants at face value and handing out reactive advice makes you a dangerous acquaintance, not a friend.
Dangerous acquaintance? What are you a danger to? A man that verbally and physically abuses his wife while trying to maintain the illusion that he is doing nothing wrong? I'll tell you where the danger is. He's afraid that with your "reactive advice" you might help her realize how bad what he is doing actually is.
"You are still free to text, call or email my wife. It truly is not under my control and I'm not asking it to be. I just ask that if you do any of those things, fulfill your claim that you are her friend. Make an effort to understand what that word means."
Now he is giving you permission to call and text his wife? Why is it up to him to give you permission. That should be up to her, and her alone.
"You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The "controlling, abusive" husband who has supported her all along."
We encouraged drama, and he is sticking around cleaning up the mess. How fucking sweet. Does he want a cookie? We did not encourage drama, he created it. After he created it, he blames it on us, and then takes the credit for "cleaning it all up". Yeah.
"And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife's life in the interest of preserving my family."
He'll weed out the cockroaches in her life in order to preserve his family. This my friends is the isolation technique. Cut off all support systems through family and friends. The only cockroach that needs to be weeded out is him.
If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I'll get back to cleaning up the real mess."
Uh, you are facing him. Cleaning up the real mess? Was he going to go take a shower?
"No, you are the one who has been revealed, Adam. Self-serving. Coward. If your intentions were honest in dealing with my wife, you should have no issue in facing me, her husband. Now go pat yourself on the back for the hotel room you paid for and I'll get back to cleaning up the real mess."
Does he want a hero of the year award? He may have done some good, but it doesn't change the things that he did that were wrong. Oh, and he let her take over two years off?
I didn't know that in order to be considered a friend you have to fly 2,000 miles every time someone hits a rough spot to have coffee with them. Apparently lending and ear and a shoulder to cry on isn't enough in his opinion.
In closing, I know that no one is perfect in a marriage, and that sometimes you do hit rough patches. However, no matter how bad things get, there is no reason to ever be physical with your spouse or significant other. Ever. I love and respect XXXX as a friend, and I am terrified as well as infuriated about the situation that she is in. If she ever needs help, I'll do anything that I can to help her. Anything. (Or any of my other friends).
Also, just because we are thousands of miles away from each other does not mean that we cannot all be friends. I know that I would do anything in my power to help any one of the friends that I have made over the internet, but sometimes flying to meet them just isn't possible. So, we do the next best thing. We talk on the phone, send e-mails, and chat, offering support and advice through those lines of communication. You don't have to be able to physically touch someone to hug them or let them know that you care.
If you are being abused and need help please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. They will help you plan an escape and halp you arrange for shelter for you and your children at a domestic violence shelter in your area that is in a secret location. Your abuser will have a very, very hard time finding you. Trust me. I've been there. It's all anonymous, and you are under no obligation, so please call. You have nothing to lose by calling.
Comments by Angel
Avi—I warned you sugar;-)
The admitted wife abuser said:
""Who among you really ever intended to back up anything you told her? You think some legal advice and a hotel room would keep her company? Feed her son? Do you all really think a "hey girl, call me if you need to talk" is worth a crap when she's really down? When her marriage is really in crisis?
You all encouraged a bunch of drama, but guess who is the one sticking around and cleaning up the mess, still loving his wife regardless of the mistakes she made and lies she told about him? Exactly. The "controlling, abusive" husband who has supported her all along.
You're worthless, just like most of her cyber friends.
Best Regards,
Roscoe
And yes, my email does show a lot about me. 1) I back my wife with genuine support, not phantom, cyber support. 2) I am not afraid to call out a coward like yourself. 3) I will take on the task of weeding the cockroaches out of my wife's life in the interest of preserving my family.""
Yes y'all here's how old Roscoe so lovingly described his wife just a little while ago....
""If she were a Star Trek character she would definitely be a girl character. Was there someone on any of the shows who was sort of slutty and submissive with an insatiable appetite for giving oral sex? If so, that is who she would be. If not, then she would be a character from a show where there was a character like that.""
I'm not sure there's anything more to add.
Comments by Turnbaby
Avi is not a coward but a champion as are a lot of the unnamed bloggers friends–but she is the only one who has the power to leave. She just has to find it.
Comments by Turnbaby
He's a manipulative control freak. He's used to intimidating people around him into doing his bidding. Mostly, he's attacking you as further means of terrorizing his wife.
He wants to make sure SHE knows that you are scared or bothered by him and you're no longer a viable rescue. That you are not is immaterial. He just wants to demonstrate that he can "reach" you.
Unfortunately, there's nothing that you can do for your friend until she makes the decision to leave this abusive asshole for good. Hopefully she will make that choice before he really hurts her, or worse.
Comments by jester
I really wish there was retro-abortion coz it sounds like that ass-licker deserves it.
Comments by Kentucky Girl
What strikes me is the sheer amount of effort this guy has put in in trying to bully you. This guy seems like the dictionary definition of control freak.
Comments by Dan
Angel's response actually made me cry. How strange is that?
Adam, I know we talked about you posting this and not posting this - and though it can seem like "drama" or exposing someone's personal life - I think it NEEDS to be seen.
This kind of crazy - you can't imagine it. You can't think that it's really REAL if you don't see the sick twisted game with your own eyes. For us, we can read these emails and go "oh my God, what an ass" - but imagine this is a REAL person, that someone is living with, married to, sleeping beside every night.
That is just NUTS.
Or at least, we all should THINK SO.
Comments by Miss Britt
It typically takes about 6 or 7 attempts at leaving before a victim will finally break free from their abuser for good. Hopefully this friend of yours will figure it out before that long because he is obviously controlling and abusive.
Comments by Ms. Understood
Adam,
You had a real chance to be my wife's friend a number of times throughout this whole ordeal. Of all her friends, you had a very unique opportunity and you passed. And finally, to get to me, you have done this. You win. Well done. You have made an example of me, but you still passed on your opportunity again to be my wife's friend.
Why did you leave out our last two emails?
Roscoe
Comments by Roscoe
Jester hit this on the head. He is trying to show her how powerful he is, and how she needs to depend upon him. I've seen this tactic before, and I've seen it in real life on the types of jobs where the wife just happens to "walk into a wall" or "trip down the stairs". The fact that walls and pavement are not round objects is apparently lost upon them. In those cases, the abuser tries to bully the victim into refusing aid, citing a number of reasons... and cutting aid off from the abused.
There is one error these types of sociopaths always make... not everyone will be in fear of them... and at some point they become too confident in their ability to control and overstep their boundaries.
Unfortunately, sometimes their overconfidence comes too late.
Comments by NYCWD
Update: I have added the last two emails to the post. I wrote the post before our conversation finished and didn't add the last two emails.
Comments by Avitable
There are some people...well...let me just say that I would really like to be left alone with them in a room for fifteen minutes.
That's all I would need.
Comments by Mr. Fabulous
Please stop.
Comments by heather
Well, I have been in this situation a couple of times, but in person. No one wins; no one ever leaves, and as much a you try to help, things do not get better.
I won't go into my thoughts about what he wrote, because I would need to write quite a bit. Understand that in no way, shape or form do I condone touching a woman inappropriately, including any physical violence. I would have done the same thing as you. But, based upon his statements, it looks and feels exactly like what I have been through twice in person.
Yes, he does behave as though he owns her. But continuing any communication is as fruitless as discussing god with a turbo Xtian.
She isn't going to leave him until it is really bad. She probably has no self-esteem, and I am sure that he brings up all the things he did to "get her out of the gutter" and take care of her son. She feels trapped, and probably does not feel deserving, or at least feels like she owes her life to him for "pulling her up out of the murk".
Too bad. It sucks. I can understand why she is depressed. He took care of everything and used it to "own" her. She never had an opportunity to feel like an equal partner, so she reaches out online to be a different person; any other person, than herself...
Comments by The Absurdist
Adam, I'm so sorry you're now caught in the middle of this. Part of me wants to tell you to run away now, far, far, away. The other part of me wants to tell you to fly XXXX to Orlando, get her the hell out of there, and deprogram this woman to stay away from this psycho. He sounds like he needs to be alone in that room with Fab. And I'll be there to tag team.
You're right, bullies are cowards. We all have your e-mail now, Roscoe. I'd watch out if I were you. You never now what a bunch of pissed-off, over-protective bloggers are capable of!
Ass...
Comments by Heather
I am so saddened by this and I now know why XXXXX hasn't been around for a while. I am so sorry that yet another woman has to go through this. If you analyze the language in the e-mails, you would see, easily enough the control and temper in the writer's voice.
"When XXXX wanted to go to school I let her take over two years off from work".... Uh OK. You LET her? She is your wife, not your property.
I hope that I am wrong, but I really think that this is how the situation will turn out:
XXXXX goes back to her husband. For a while things seem OK. She can blog and text and etc, but really, she is too embarassed by what happened to do so. (IT IS NOT HER FAULT - she shouldn't be embarassed, but a mediocre controller will be able to make her feel so) Then when she slowly starts to blog again, her husband will chip away at her self esteem and use his influence on her to make her feel so guilty that she ends up quitting alltogether rather than break up her family.
Been there and I don't look forward to seeing the above scenario. IF she comes back at all that is.
Maybe XXXXX needs a little distance and perspective to put these things into place. Like Angel and quite a few other people said, there is help out there. Don't be too embarassed to ask for it.
Just remember that control is a kind of abuse. Your right to think as you please goes right out the window. You get "trained" to start thinking like the person who controls you and the longer that is going on, the harder it is to break away.
I am sure that the husband actually BELIEVES that what he is doing is right. That is the sad thing.
Hugs, kisses and prayers go out to you and you can e-mail me for my phone number. I am thinking that I am fairly close to you and if you want to talk, I'm there.
Comments by ADW
Life's too short to put up with assholes. Takes a pig to beat on his wife is all I know.
Comments by RW
Aren't you giving him the attention he wants by posting all this? And I think you need to hear the voice of XXXXXX.
Comments by Poppy
*wordless and in tears*
Comments by Britt's mom
i was in a long term relationship where he "only" used words to keep me under his control. and it was scary. the isolation was terrible. can't imagine how it would have been if he used his physical power to also control me.
strange, the reason i left was the isolation. i love people and couldn't handle the solitary confinement. i didn't like not feeling like me. tried to leave twice before i finally stuck to what i knew was right and moved out for good.
what i find truly interesting is that i got more respect and support from those i thought would look down on me. they were so proud of me for standing up for myself. not pity either. and they showered me with time, furniture, food...anything i needed. it was truly amazing. especially when i didn't feel like i deserved much at all.
adam, you & britt are good friends. stay strong for her. (ya know, i haven't read her blog for that long of a time, but knew IMMEDIATELY who this was about. hope she knows she is bright and funny and doesn't deserve to ever be shoved to the ground.)
Comments by hellohahanarf
He is working so hard to sway you isn't he?
I hope your efforts are not for naught. It sucks that you've been dragged into this. It is so achingly hard and frustrating watching a friend return to someone who has hurt them so much. It's so hard to understand why they can't see the obvious.
Comments by Victoria
Things get blown so out of proportion when people gossip for the sake of good drama about others without ever checking with the person they're gossiping about to learn the real truth.
The truth is I had an internet affair and my husband found out. The truth is we had one horrible day when he found out and what happened on that day has been blown up a million times worse than what actually happened. I haven't been online because my husband and I have been working very hard to [privately] fix our marriage.
I love my husband and am frustrated because I trusted my friends enough to vent and it got twisted into something very big and very serious and now no matter what I say, nobody will believe the truth about what a truly good person he is which is very unfortunate because you're all missing out.
My husband is not a controlling wife beater. He isn't perfect, but neither am I and the friends I want in my life are the ones who don't judge my life and my husband based on one day. The friends I want in my life are the ones who will take the time to email/call/text me to find out the truth rather than post threats to my husband in these comments. (By the way, with all these "concerned, caring" friends here that will do anything to help me you would think I'd get a phone call/email/text and I haven't received a single one. Nothing. But people who have no clue who I am have no problem bashing my life and my husband on here. Drama clearly beats friendship.)
The thing is, everyone is so caught up in the drama (apparently too caught up to bother even checking up with the person the drama is about) that nobody cared to think about what a public post would do to a person in real life. Nobody thought about how a public post about very private things could hurt me and any progress that was made toward fixing my marriage. Or that my coworkers read this blog and all the hard work to keep things private and away from work have been blown which will no doubt cause more problems for me. That by publicly posting our home email address, we would be harassed by people who claim to care. Not only that but by publicly posting our home email address and his name, you have potentially hurt our income since he does business online and any one of his customers can now google his name and email and read slanderous (untrue) things about him.
Again, drama clearly beats friendship.
Comments by heather
@Poppy:
It needs attention.
XXXX has her own choices to make, and I completely understand that. Really, I do.
But emails like this, tactics like this, men who think and talk like this - are common. Roscoe isn't the only one.
And they need to have their asses dragged into the light where people can SEE it for what it is and call them out on it. The days of being the "good neighbor" who doesn't make a fuss and closes the door and turns up the TV because they don't want to "cause any trouble" NEED to end.
And not just for XXXX.
Comments by Miss Britt
heather,
if roscoe didn't want to fuel the drama, why did he email adam? you quit blogging to concentrate on privately healing your marriage, yet he chose to put in writing words to someone known to post anything and everything out there for the whole world. doesn't seem to me like he wanted privacy.
i'm truly sorry that you are dealing with all of this mess. but i don't think avi would have ever threw your life onto his site like this unless roscoe stoked the fire the way he did.
all the best to you.
Comments by hellohahanarf
Having been abused in my life on many different levels and by different types of people, this makes me cry. I read what he wrote and I see my ex's. And I remember thinking it was ALL my fault. As if I could change and fix whatever it was that was going on.
I really wish that there was something I personally could do to help–BUT I have learned that the victim usually has to hit ROCK bottom in order to leave. And everyone's rock bottom is different. Avi, and anyone else that knows who she is please stick by her and help her when she is finally ready. Just knowing that there is someone out there who cares is sometimes what it takes for them to leave the abuser......
No one deserves to feel like the dirt on the ground gets more respect. No one deserves to have ANY aspect of their life controlled. OR to be hit/shoved/or touched in any angry physical way. No one should feel helpless.
My heart is with you.
Comments by themuttprincess
I've come across bullies in all shapes and sizes. They don't hide well, it's tough for them to cover up their true colors as it was obvious with him. Most often people run away from bullies and ignore it, it's good you told the truth.
Comments by Robin
I emailed Adam because he knew about the affair and merely handed out divorce advice. He did not step in as a friend and try to find out what was going on. I do not hold him responsible, but he should be accountable for his actions (or lack of).
This is not an uncommon approach in the wake of an affair. It is actually recommended that the spouse who was betrayed write letters to those who knew of the affair and chose not to step up to the plate as true friends. It is recommended that they be weeded out. This is not something that I have made up.
You want to see it as controlling, and you are correct. Anyone who knew of an affair and was an enabler must be agreed upon to be removed from the relationship. Again, this is actually recommended action by many reconciliation books and it was directly recommended by OUR marriage counselor. Incidentally, I have even discussed in detail the physical reaction I had that day with our marriage counselor.
Adam clearly is a toxic person to our relationship and I did as was recommended. I vented my anger at his knowledge and began the process of weeding him out of our relationship.
He chose to make an example of me, rather than prove his friendship for Heather. So in a way, this is all a blessing because it is now clear who Heather's friends really are, and who are not.
For that, in a way, I am thankful that Adam has posted these emails and added his narrative. I am thankful for the threats you've made without bothering to contact Heather first. You are making the weeding out process much simpler.
So go on with your analysis. I may not have been particulary well spoken, but it was following the advice of a marriage conselor. Copies have been made of the entire exchange and will be reviewed with that same marriage conselor, as will be forwarded to whomever may be interested at the local bar association in the Orlando area.
Comments by Roscoe
Heather,
I'm battling two instincts here: shut up for your sake, and speak out. I've never been good at shutting up.
As everyone here knows, I know Adam. And I wish you could see what I see - that this wasn't anywhere close to an attempt to create "drama". THIS is what a man does who is taunted by a bully from miles away. THIS is what a man does who is otherwise helpless to defend a friend. THIS is what a man who does NOT have a "physical reaction" does when he is angry because someone he cares about is being treated unfairly.
I wish that you could see that our emails and texts to "check in" (mine included) both during and since "that day" are borne out of genuine concern. Out of genuine friendship. Out of a genuine desire for YOUR happiness.
We don't email/phone/text - or post this - because we crave Internet Drama. We do it because we believe in who you are. We do it because we want so badly for you to be happy and healthy and safe and strong and OK.
We do it because we desperately need for you to know that you deserve all of that and more.
And we need you to know that we will be here. Even if you're angry now - we will always, always be here.
And because we wish like hell that you would believe US.
In all Sincerity,
Britt
Comments by Miss Britt
Long time reader, but first time commenter here. I have no knowledge of whats led to the events of this post except for what I've read here, so I'm coming at this from an outsider.
And AS an outsider, it appears that in Roscoe's mind he is doing what is 'neccessary' to save his marriage. A person can not blame their 'friends' for the demise of their marriage. He keeps speaking of weeding out toxic friends. These friends are only really truely toxic if they are the ones who pushed the woman into having the affair. Simply knowing it was going on does not make someone an enabler. As XXX's friends, letting her do what makes her happy, and not informing her husband does not make you an enabler. Had they been the husbands friends and not the wives perhaps I could see where the husband would have cause to call them 'toxic' and to 'weed them out'.
To me the husband is using psychological BS (all this weeding out of friends) in order to make it appear he is doing good for the marriage. When in essence what I see from an outside is that he is using what the so called experts say, to his advantage by segregating his wife from any form of support system. What better way to do it then convince them its for their own good.
Blah.... I could go on... but in the end unless XXX wants to leave no amount of outside support is going to get her to that point until she is ready to see through the blinders what really truely is going on with her marriage. Not speaking from experience or anything.
Comments by RuralBytch
I know you had good intentions but I think you had no right to post this information. Yes, you are doing it to call out an abuser but in the process you violated XXXX's right to privacy. Her privacy should have been more important to you as her friend.
I am an occasional reader and it really should have been up to XXXX for me to know this personal information about her life. If she wants to have an affair, stay with her husband or dance naked in Central Park, it is her choice. You as a friend are required to listen, offer advice and that is all. It is ultimately her choice and I personally would never confide in you again after airing my dirty laundry on the internet.
Comments by Melanie
First, allow me to apologize for continuing this although the person who it involves has requested it to stop @ comment number 21, but I find this to be a serious matter having experienced it myself...
This is not an uncommon approach in the wake of an affair. It is actually recommended that the spouse who was betrayed write letters to those who knew of the affair and chose not to step up to the plate as true friends.
It is at this point where I now call bullshit. As a victim of an adulterous spouse, I assure you this is NOT common for the betrayed spouse to engage the cheating spouse's friends who had knowledge of the affair. You should request the credentials and written references of published works for the basis of this instruction from your therapist.
It IS common for a betrayed spouse to contact THEIR friends who had knowledge. The reason behind this is because the betrayal of their spouse is only amplified by the betrayal of their friends, who are therefore considered toxic, yadda yadda yadda.
Roscoe, while it is true I don't know you... and I would venture to say that Heather and I are more of online acquaintances than true friends, I will say that when we did speak she had nothing but nice things to say about you. I can't help but feel that in reality you love her dearly, were crushed by this revelation, and you began your journey into a sociopathic state of mind. I've seen it before. Hell, I've done it.
So let me offer you this small piece of advice... put the overpriced books down, find a new therapist, stop misdirecting your bitterness, and realize that the biggest enabler of an adulterous spouse is you.
But don't think your special... because I was one too.
Comments by NYCWD
I find it very hard to fault someone whose intentions were good, questionable methods of response or not. Something tells me this post wasn't started with a flippant, "oh what the hell" kind of approach. Something tells me there was a lot of back and forth before Adam posted. So before anything else, we need to find the Light in everyone involved.
Comments by RW
Heather: sorry you have had such a hard time. Truly.
Roscoe: you said it best when you said you "chose" a "physical reaction" - but really, why not call it what it is? Saying you chose to beat your wife would have been the truth, right? Why didn't you just say it? Your wife has taken you back and no charges are being filed against you, so why not just say what you did? The extent to which this is none of my business is obvious – I only say this because of what I see as an overwhelming amount of typing intended at defending or minimizing the violence perpetrated against your wife. She is a grown woman and she can choose to work on the marriage if she wants to, but for heaven’s sake, MAN UP already. Admit what you did, admit there is no justification for it, and seek help. There’s no chance of saving your marriage if you can’t admit what you did and examine the causes of your unacceptable behavior – and NO, your wife didn’t cause it by doing something “bad” – whatever she did or didn’t do, violence simply does not apply to the case. Work on that instead of criticizing Avitable for trying to do right by his friend. Also, it is the right and honorable thing to try to save your marriage. Of course it is. No one would judge you for that, so there is no need to be defensive about that, either. But if your method for saving you marriage is THIS – defending yourself in the comments section of someone’s blog, something is seriously awry. Your complaint with Avitable for posting the emails may or may not be legitimate. I can’t speak for Avitable. I have only been reading his blog for about three weeks. From a truly objective 3rd party’s point of view, his decision to post your emails wasn't an attempt to be hateful or an attempt to hurt YOU; he was merely trying to illustrate a point about relationships for his readers and if possible, help Heather look at the problem from the point of view of most of the rest of the world, which is holy shit DO NOT STAY IN A MARRIAGE WHERE YOU ARE IN PHYSICAL DANGER. It is worthwhile for her to get that message. If you think people are going to take the time and trouble to hunt you down, forget about it. Everyone knows that Heather alone is responsible for removing herself from the relationship if she is in danger. All anyone else can do is be there for her - which Brit has just said she and Avitable would emphatically do - whether she stays in the marriage or not. As for the charge of “drama” brokering, it’s not just Avitable doing the brokering – you are too, by sending those emails and by posting in the comments. And also this isn’t even drama. It’s just one day in a string of bad days you’ll eventually just call the bad time of 2007. No one is out to get you – certainly not people on the computer who don’t even know you.
All other concerned parties, refer to Brit's post earlier this month titled "The Watchers" it speaks the truth about how little even a good friend can do to help someone leave an abusive relationship. Heather will leave if and when she is ready - and in the meantime, remaining loyal to Heather, no matter how pissed off she might be today, is the right thing to do.
Comments by Anonymous
what a fucking asshole.
Comments by Webmiztris
Anonymous,
Your post is well spoken and includes some wise thoughts. However, be clear that I have never once in my life hit my wife, ever. I have never hit a woman, ever. As for disecting exactly what occurred in what was literally a matter of seconds has been discussed in detail with our marriage counselor. I indeed have manned up to it in the presence of my wife in our marriage counselor's office. And I assure it DID NOT INVOLVE dragging my wife around the room by her hair as Avitable would have you believe above.
This has been so blown out of proportion.
Comments by Roscoe
I am not going to keep debating this because obviously nobody wants to listen to the person this is about.
I will say that I'm very disappointed that of all these "concerned" friends, only ONE has attempted to contact me. Why has nobody cared to find out the truth instead of feeding in to this overblown drama and actually making things much worse for the "friend they care so much about"?
Adam - Please remove this post. Be the friend you claim to be and listen to what I need you to do.
Comments by heather
Heather, the reason I haven't contacted you is for a few reasons. One there was I believe at least 1 email and a voicemail I never got a response about. I was also afraid if I emailed you that it would make things worse. I'm not sure you realize how much people have worried not knowing what to do.
Comments by Robin
Holy fuckbuckets.
After reading all of these comments, I don't even know what to say anymore.
What a mess though, Adam. Sad that you apparently tried to do something good, and it backfired royally on you.
xoxox
Comments by J.
Uuf, the Drama.
Comments by BOSSY
Heather,
I am concerned for you. While we may never know what really happened, what I do see is concerning. No one should ever "let you." You should be in control of your own life. Decisions should be made jointly, not someone letting you take time off to go to school. When my husband decided to go back to school we jointly decided that we would live more frugally so that he could take the year off. If you are over 18 you no longer need to have permission to live your life.
This kind of controlling is generally an indicator of other problems. While I don't know you, I do hope that you are safe. If you are going to stay, educate yourself on the signs of an abuser, and where to go if you feel that you need to get out.
And while you may be pissed as hell at Adam, remember he was there for you when you needed it. That, to me, is the definition of a friend.
Comments by kim
Every case is different but there were phrases in his emails that sent chills through me. Counselling needed. Now.
Adam, you really are a good friend, you've done what you thought was right and that's all you can do. I wish I had had someone like you around in the past.
Comments by Bec
People, people, people, you all have good intentions and to Melanie - Adam airing dirty laundry? Hey, Roscoe shouldn't have emailed him. Adam didn't post personal emails between he and Heather - he posted emails from an abusive husband who was obviously trying to intimidate him. There's a big difference. He didn't expose anything SHE confided - he exposed a textbook abuser.
Heather, you know what, honey, you are in denial. Take a look at what your husband said - "he chose a physical reaction" and in the next post says "he's never hit anyone" - guess what Roscoe, my ex-husband never outright PUNCHED me. Nope, he pinched the shit out of the back of my arms until they were lumpy and black, he pulled my hair and he slammed me into walls, he head-butted me in my nose one night and the entire room looked like mass-murder had been committed.
But, guess what, honey, he never "hit" me.
So, I don't care if Roscoe shoved you, kicked you, pulled your hair, or pinched you - if he TOUCHED you AGGRESSIVELY AT ALL - then it's WRONG and it is NOT how rational, mature, human beings act especially when they are supposed to LOVE one another.
And, I don't give a damn if he walked in on you with three other guys - there is NO excuse for ANY form of physical aggression.
Roscoe - jesus, for the love of God, grow up. "You chose a physical reaction" but you have never "hit a woman" - both are the fucking same you dipwad.
You may have Heather buffaloed and intimidated but YOU showed exactly who you were in those emails.
And, "blown out of proportion" ???? Yeah, that's what I told my mom and friends too. I said the same damn things Heather.
But as a mother, I got my children out of there because even if they weren't being abused - they were learning that it was ok to treat someone like that, and whether you like it or not, your son will do the same especially since you say it's ok and was just blown out of proportion.
Comments by Amy
*sigh*
Adam–you are a good person.
Comments by Turnbaby
Wow! 48 comments from people who care and yet nobody cares enough to really listen to ME.
Let me say this very clearly. I am not in an abusive, controlling marriage. I am not a fucking victim. You want my dirty laundry? Here ya go. I fought my way from being homeless and living in my car to be who I am today. And you want to turn me in to a victim and talk about me as if I can't make my own decisions? I'm not that weak and I resent the fact that you all want to make me out to be some weak helpless victim. I am smart enough and strong enough NOT to stay in an abusive relationship. Give me some fucking credit here and quit questioning my intelligence and strength.
Now, while you all get to enjoy the drama of MY PRIVATE LIFE (that I DID NOT want public) today and you get to turn off your computers tomorrow and enjoy your Thanksgiving dinners and forget about me, I'm left dealing with the very real problems this post has created for me. Will you all be here for me tomorrow to help me clean up the mess this post caused?
Comments by heather