Last night, on Clearly, You’re Retarded, we had an interesting show focused around children. The main focus of the discussion was where should kids be allowed to go and where should they be prohibited?
My personal opinion is best described as follows:
1. Most kids are annoying and/or obnoxious
2. Kids should learn how to behave and proper manners from their parents and relatives
3. In order to avoid annoying the rest of us, kids should have limited exposure to the outside world until they’ve learned those proper manners and reached age 10 or 11.
If I could make the rules, here’s what I would say:
Movies:
Kids can go to G movies and some PG movies, but if the movie starts after 8 PM, no kids are allowed. I don’t care if it’s a G-rated movie, if I want to go see the newest Pixar film, I don’t want a bunch of kids ruining the film for me.
Restaurants:
Kids should be restricted to fast food restaurants and family-style restaurants (e.g., ones where the servers have flair). Stick to Chuck E. Cheese and McDonald’s, and leave the real restaurants to the adults. Maybe once in a while, as a reward for a birthday or something, a child can go out to a nice restaurant, but only if he or she is well-behaved, and only if it’s one kid at a time.
Public places:
Parks and beaches are fun places for kids to be, so I’m okay with them being there, because you expect it to be loud and noisy there.
Airplanes:
Kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly until they’re 9 or 10 at a very minimum. If you want to take your kids somewhere, drive. Then they can just annoy you in the car, not me.
Museums:
Kids are only allowed if they’re on a field trip. Otherwise, leave it to the adults.
Musicals, opera, symphonies:
No kids allowed. Fucking period.
What are your thoughts?
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Pedophobe
oh my god. i agree with everything you have said here, especially the plane part. no matter where i travel, there is always a screaming infant shrieking NO! NO! NO! right at the back of my chair.
xanax + red wine is my friend
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Agree with you completely.
But tell any of that to my son and he will totally kick your arse. And then make a movie about it.
A musical.
Where you will sing like a girl.
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@Kelley,
I hope your kid gets hit by a bus.
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As someone who works retail and has extensive contact with people of all sizes and ages in the public and me in a position of glorified lackey being shat on equally by all, I’d say that by far adults are far more obnoxious and should have more restrictions placed on them in public.
To whit, I’d rather clean up a toddlers pee accident every hour on the hour than have to clean up after some drunk dood who thought the automotive section was a urinal. Or peel apart the pages of a magazine that some desperate wanker wanked into and then shoved between the rows of Disney princess books and who is now sitting in the corner watching to see what unsuspecting little girl would pick it up.
I’d rather listen to kids screaming about whatever it is kids scream about, than listen to one more self-important jerk-off hold high court a la Blue Tooth up and down every aisle of the store or in museums or next to me on the bus.
Most perfume and cologne smells worse than a diaper filled with spinach poop.
I’d rather have a 4 year old kick the back of my seat on a 10 hour flight than some guy drool on me or “accidentally” grab my inner thigh or think that I might think that what he had to say about whatever is more interesting than the John Irving book I’m trying to read.
In general, kids have a good excuse for being jerks; adults do not, and they are bigger and louder at it.
However, I’m an equal opportunity hater, and most people tick me off, so there is that.
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Twitter: Amanda234
says:
I agree with all of them, especially the movie part. Even if it’s G or PG, your 3 year old doesn’t need to see it in the theater. Guess what? They won’t sit still. Or be quiet. It’s not cute when they yell “WALL-E!!!!” at the screen, it’s just annoying. It’ll be out on DVD in a few months. You can wait until then.
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Twitter: Jayman3768
says:
I would think that a minimum decent restaurants shouldn’t allow kids after, say 8 pm. And if a place is more of a bar than a restaurant they should allow kids either.
And please don’t bring your kids to the casino! Good grief!
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We started taking our kids to restaurants and on planes when they were really still babies. If you start teaching them what behavior is expected from the very beginning, then you don’t have kids that are monsters in every public place they go.
We had very rare occasions when one of them misbehaved and had to be taken to the parking lot for a time-out.
I have a HUGE problem with people who don’t teach their kids how to behave in public, but insist on taking them to public places anyway.
Parents who let their kids run wild in stores should be permanently banned from those stores.
Can you tell I work in retail?
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As long as they don’t come into my store and LICK my mirrors and leave food and shit on the floor I don’t care where they go.
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I hate kids when they get in my way, or shatter my ear drum…but that doesn’t mean that well-behaved kids shouldn’t be allowed to go places with their parents. If a kid is well-behaved, it’s because of the parent. If the parent is doing their job, a kid will be well behaved (in my case, it was for fear of getting another flailing with the garden hose…but hey, it worked).
Personally, I think if the parent can’t control their kids and the kid disrupts the place, the parent should be banned from the place (wherever it may be).
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I think the problem is three-fold: 1) some indulgent parents, 2) parents who don’t understand basic developmental stages and reasonable expectations, and who set their kids up to fail in public situations by not being realistic about children’s normal developmental abilities and limitations, but also 3) kids are so segregated into kiddie lands almost everywhere in public these days that they don’t understand their place – and I mean that in a good way – or even that they have a place, a role, in society that includes people of all ages. When you’re constantly being shooshed away like an unruly pet, you being to play the role you’re given more and more. Some expectations can be risen to.
Some behavior is learned only when the child is developmentally ready, but without practice, even a 10 year old is not going to suddenly understand immediately what the parameters and expectations for behavior are. Kids are human. They need practice being human within a society. Sometimes they are going to screw up and do so with volume. Welcome to planet earth where no one asks to be born.
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@Jozet at Halushki,
Fuck that. Kids can control their behavior. If a kid acts up, the parents should smack the little bastard. To hell with your psychobabble.
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@Ed T,
Oh, I agree some people should be smacked. But 10 times out of 10, it’s not kids. But nice try, Ed.
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Twitter: whall
says:
Fascist.
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I have kids and I completely agree!! Most of those would REALLY pertain to our youngest member of the family, who is only 16 months but showing real signs he will be “one of those kids” but my 3 yr old can hang with adults and you seriously would never be bothered. He is awesome!
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As Hubby was a chef in various “nice” restaurants and resorts, and I worked in catering in the same resorts, we started training Munchkin at a VERY early age. There was one incident, at 3 years old, of climbing under the table at a restaurant which brought about a trip to the parking lot, and ever since (he’s now 11) all you have to do is ask if we need to take a trip to the parking lot to put him right back in line.
So, I agree with Jozet and Danalyn. Kids shouldn’t ALWAYS be segregated. The parents have to take the responsibility to teach the children properly. To that end, even in a “kid friendly” environment, I expect children to stand in line properly at McDonald’s while their parents order food (not swing from the bars like effing monkeys), and I expect them to speak at a proper volume when having lunch at an effing Chick-fil-a, not scream at the top of their lungs. Just because it is a “kid place” doesn’t give the lazy parents a free pass to let their kids ruin everyone’s experience there.
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I hate rules, we don’t need any more.
It is generally down to if a child is well behaved, which is often looked at as a reflection of the parents’ handling of them.
If the child has an aptitude for fitting in, they should have the same freedoms as everyone else.
However if they are a pain in the ass, they should be in-prisoned in a sound proof booth, fed a slurry of the perfected balanced diet, until such a time that they can learn to be quiet on demand.
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Twitter: bellaventa
says:
I fell asleep last night before I could call in to tell you that I agree with you…somewhat. I truly believe that good behavior starts with your parents…..it’s not up to society to teach our children how to behave – it’s up the parents to instill that early on. So if the parents can’t do their job and teach their kids appropriate behavior, then I agree with you with all of your points. But if a child is trained to be seen and not heard (like I and my siblings were…), then why should children be kept a box? Though casinos, operas and symphonies are also off limits – as well as movies after 8 PM – I never got that…what – the parents are too cheap to get a babysitter so you bring them to a 9:00 showing of “Zac and Miri Make a Porno?” Please.
But yeah. I’m done ranting now…
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I tend to agree with the mindset that kids are never going to learn appropriate public behavior if they’re never exposed to the situations. However, parents have to be in charge, and, ultimately, the responsibility to ensure their children’s good behavior falls squarely on them.
Because I know that’s no easy job, I always stop by and compliment parents whose kids were good (while out to eat, for instance). I think they– the parents AND the children– appreciate hearing that their efforts haven’t gone unnoticed.
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From an early age, I have taught my children(Note I said children… not “kids”) how to behave in public. Behaving in public means being seen and not heard, saying please and thank you to the waitstaff when you are in places of eating, being aware of others when watching films in a theater, etc…etc….
These are all things that PARENTS need to teach their kids. I have noticed that most times when a kid or pack of kids act like shit, it is because the parents are shitty as well. They have never taught their kids basic manners, please and thank you, etc… and there fore people like you want to ban all children from almost everywhere, and I do not blame you one bit!
Just do not include my children in that group of ill mannered heathens. I have done my duty as a parent. :woohoo:
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You just described the best possible way to create annoying and obnoxious kids.
When I first started dating LovelyWife, we would goto restaurants all the time, and would on occasion, see kids not behaving. One of the firsts “pacts” we made was that our kids would not be that way.
We take our kids almost everywhere, and everywhere we go with the kids we get complimented by the staff on the behavior of our kids.
We take them to movies, and they are quiet, sit in place and most importantly they pick-up their empty popcorn and drink containers when the movie’s over.
We take them to restaurants all the time, but we avoid the fast food places. The more adult a restaurant is, the better. My kids will eat (or at least try) anything. There’s not much that pleases me more than my 7 year-old saying “can we go to the sushi place tonight”.
We took the kids to the Dominican Republic when they were 8 and 6. They really enjoyed the plane and the flight attendants love them. This picture is not staged.
We took them to Cayo Coco the year after.
My kids love the museums. My daughter loves Monet and my son loves the Canadian room. We used to be members of the museum here, and we’d go every other week-end.
We had tickets for date night at Evita (the opera), but I was sick, so LovelyWife took my daughter. That was 8 months ago and Zoé still talks about it. LovelyWife heard a few comments from blue-haired ladies that the opera was no place for a 9 year-old, but I disagree. I’m taking my son to see Cyrano at the theater in December. I’ll let you know how it goes!
So to conclude this really long comment, I mostly agree with you:
1. Most kids are annoying, but only because most parents don’t know how to be parents.
2. Kids should learn how to behave from parents and relatives in real life situations.
3. Limited exposure is not a bad policy, but I would lower your age criteria to 4 years, not 10-11.
So clearly you’re retarded, but my kids are not.
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Twitter: LeSombre
says:
^^^ Hey, that’s me! I just messed up my e-mail.
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I agree with you on the majority of points. I however will not take my kids anywhere if they are in a “mood”, or I will simply go out to the van with the little asshole until they can behave.
I was of the generation of “children are to be seen and not heard” and while I do not live by that rule with my kids, I remove them from any situation where they are bothering people.
As for the airplane – if a parent is smart, they will either drug their kid with gravol or bring along a bag of new toys and activities that the kid will be better behaved than most of the adults.
My kids are generally well behaved, they have excellent manners, and I often get comments from people that it’s nice to see someone actually parenting.
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Twitter: karensugarpants
says:
Ugh – I totally agree. And what annoys me more than a kid acting up is the parents either a) doing nothing, or b) whisper-yelling at their kid incessantly.
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Since all my “kids” are grown and gone I can say proudly that we did take them to restaurants, movie theaters, and any number of social situations starting when they reached about age 5.
We raised them right. They were always well-behaved. They did not speak out of turn or act like animals in a barnyard.
We’ve taken them everywhere. With the exception of the grocery store. While they were well-behaved, I learned that I could save about $100 per shopping trip by leaving them home with a babysitter.
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I agree with most of that. My son will be five next month. When we go to public places, he is well aware he is to be quiet and use good manners. It is stunning how many times my husband and I are complimented on his manners. Stunning because his manners are just what WE were expected to behave like when we were his age. We have always been of the theory that we love our son, but not everyone else does. So, if we were in restaurants and he was loud or crying, out he’d go. When he was a baby, we were VERY careful where we took him. I still haven’t taken him to a movie because I don’t trust he can sit quietly for more than 1/2 hour. I don’t think it’d be fair of me to impose his loudness (is that a word) on others.
As for museums, etc… I disagree with you. Children should be allowed in BUT THEY SHOULD BE FORCED TO BEHAVE.
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I can see your point.
I’ve worked retail and restaurants, and the kids were, in my experience, far worse in the restaurants. HOWEVER – there were kids that weren’t half bad too.
I can say that from what I’ve heard, I was a pretty good kid in public. I also remember the one time I acted up – in a Chuck E Cheese of all places – and my dad immediately picked me up, paid the bill, and we left. He wasn’t about to put up with that shit. And it stuck with me – I knew that if I misbehaved, there was no “stop it.” There was “We’re leaving. Now.”
I intend to treat my kids in the same way – teach them to behave, and have consequenses if they don’t. And for most of the above that applies – the only one I’m not sure about is airplanes. I hate the bratty snotty kid behind me as much as the next person. And I feel horrible for the infant who’s mother doesn’t understand that her ears can’t adjust to the pressure changes. But, I’m in a nasty position of having to fly every now and then because my husband is in the military. I was petrified of him moving us to Hawaii and having to take a 3 month old on the plane. I didn’t want to do it, but it’ just not somewhere I could drive to. I AM however, planning on driving her when we move to North Carolina. I don’t like to fly, and I REALLY don’t want to put a bunch of people ad the baby through that if I don’t have to.
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Twitter: missbritt
says:
I love LeSombre.
And also?
YOU DON’T EVEN GO TO MUSICALS, OPERAS OR SYMPHONIES!! :crazywife:
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Twitter: _SciFiDad_
says:
I understand where you’re coming from, but the reality is you don’t learn proper restaurant etiquette at home. Restaurants are busier, have no toys but more distractions, have people in a service position, etc. Home has none of these things, and even using acted out scenes will feel artificial and not provide the lessons the kids need.
I could make similar arguments for movies and other places you mention.
Look, I’m not advocating bringing my overtired and cranky kid to Chez Fifi or wherever the fuck, but I think there’s a value in exposing kids to real life experiences, places where people sit quietly and have a meal.
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Twitter: nycwatchdog
says:
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet.
I agree with #2 of your opinion, but not much else.
Except the Opera part. No child should be brought into an Opera house, that is inhumane and should be considered as a war crime. For that matter, most adults should also not be subjected to such torture. Those who wish to be masochistic should go right ahead, but leave the rest of us out of it… and that includes showing it on PBS.
I’ll come back after I’m done hearing Britt screech for the eleventh time at the 31:09 mark.
Just like Turnbaby, she’s like clockwork.
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I agree with most everything. Especially the movies. I HATE when people bring their kids to a late movie. Let alone an inappropriate for the age movie. When my son was young, if I didn’t have a sitter, we didn’t go out to the movie. Simple as that.
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wow. you’re an asshole. but right in this instance.
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My Special Lady and I are currently trying to mold our three year old twin girls into children that I would not mind seeing in public.
Alas, we are not perfect, and neither are the girls, so we have occasionally been “those people”. I hate us too then.We’ll get there,though.
We basically do not fly with them anymore(until they are a bit older, anyway), because I find a two day car trip to be far less stressful than a 2 and a half hour flight that regularly turns into a 13 hour death march, but there was one time we flew, and the girls were I guess somewhere around a year and a half old(we had to fly because we were surprising my mom for Mother’s Day, and could not get many days off)and the takeoff/landing was torture on the girls’ ears.We did our best to console/silence them ,but it was not easy. After we landed, this fucker hit my wife in the head with his carry on bag, and when he saw who it was(“those people” with the screaming kids) he rolled his eyes and kept walking.I guess she did not warrant an apology for ruining his flight. I’m not sure I’d accuse my kids of being the worst behaved people on that flight.
Oh, and I promise I’ll never bring my kids to the opera.
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At any location, anywhere, there should be a designated spot just for kids that is blocked off from the rest of us and sound proof.
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I agree with most of those. Too many parents let their kids run around like little idiots and ruin everyone else’s time, regardless of where they are.
I don’t let my kid do that. Maybe because she’s an only child and has been around adults a lot, but she really is well behaved most of the time. When she isn’t – she’s gone.
I flat out don’t get the parents who take their kids out after 9p.m. I have been to stores open 24 hours at like, 1 and 2a.m, and there are parents there with crying, obnoxious kids. WTF?!
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Twitter: hellohahanarf
says:
i don’t think you can say “all” for any group. when i was little my mom took me everywhere so i learned to behave (or it was outside for a swat on the butt and then home). as i got a bit older, i tried to work that system to go home when i didn’t want to be somewhere. at that point the parents changed tactics and home became more miserable than the public event (think scrubbing toilets and scooping dog poop). again, i learned to behave. quickly!
i blame parents, not kids. i think lesombre said it better than i did, but whatever.
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I agree with you. We should take get ahold of some type of child chopper to chop up all of the world’s children into little pieces. No exceptions. Yell in a movie theatre? Chop! Runny nose and may infect others? Chop! Look at me the wrong way? Chop!
Now I will tell a long story.
I only recently started taking Will and Tina out in the public. Like a good parent I didn’t let them leave the house until the youngest was 12. Watching a child’s eyes as they discover things for the first time is pretty neat. A few weeks ago I let Will try ice cream for the first time, and when he politely asked for more I actually considered giving him some.
They grow up so quick.
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Twitter: msmegan
says:
We started taking Lil’ M to restaurants. When he was about six months old we took him to a fancy place with my family for Easter dinner. No one even knew there was a baby there.
I agree with those that say you have to teach the kids how to behave in certain situations. It’s up to the parents to see that they learn.
But I will agree that movies before a certain age are best viewed at home because little ones have no impulse control and cannot keep from talking no matter how hard they try.
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I have two very well-behaved children. I know, I know, every parent thinks their kids are well-behaved, but mine really are. They have shy temperaments so they don’t act up when around strangers. I, like you, have a low tolerance for obnoxious children. But, I think your rules are a little unfair. Especially regarding restaurants and airplanes.
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I would want my kids to grow up to be sociable and well-adjusted, so I would take them out of the house. I would just avoid most things like you mentioned. Opera – no six yo is going to appreciate it. A museum with the right exhibits (like dinosaurs)? Sure, as long as they’re well-behaved. I’d let them know enjoying the experience depended on their ability to behave, and we’d leave if they became difficult. Same thing with restaurants – kids might like pizza shooters, but I can’t see one properly appreciating roast boar au jus, so that stays on the adult list until maybe a teen birthday. Also, I should be issued a license to kill so I can whack any kid or parent who doesn’t meet with my approval.
Exception – cute Asian schoolgirls who misbehave will be put into my special retraining camp, by which I mean my walk-in closet that I have refurbished with heavy locks and spiked bars.
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Twitter: hellohahanarf
says:
grant -
when i was about six or seven years old, my parents took us to lake erie. we all ran out of the van and straight into the water, fully clothed. when we went to eat, most of the places were closed as it was after the official lunch hours and before dinner. only one restaurant was open. in we traipsed, all six kids in the only dry clothing available: bathing suits. we were on good behavior because all we could think about was food and if we acted up it was out the door. waiter came over in his tuxedo and i quietly asked for a grilled cheese. with a snooty attitude he informed me that they didn’t serve grilled cheese. loudly i told him it was ok and that i would just have the chateaubriand. he almost fell over.
anyhow, kids can appreciate all kinds of foods. depends on what the parents expose them to. a great friend’s little one LOVES sushi because they never told her it was gross. i blame the parents for their kids behaviors. and for a lot of their fears as well.
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Twitter: hellohahanarf
says:
p.s. i just had to look up how to spell chateaubriand. i am 37. could order it as a child, yet still can’t spell it as an adult. issues. i have issues.
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I’ve been taking care of other people’s kids for 25 years. In that time I’ve taken them out to eat (start with McD’s and work your way up to more adult places) We have been to the movies (and yes I have walked out with them and taken them home for bad behavior-and billed the parents for ticket reimbursement!)We learned through SummerStage how to behave in a theatre. We rode public transportation and for some, it was training to fly in an airplane.
This is not to say that kids are allowed everywhere. I agree with an 8pm rule, and I think it is more than fair to parents and kids AND businesses.
The problem is the parents. I can’t stand the ‘angry whisperers’ and the ‘pleaders’and the ‘bribers’ These aren’t parents. They are kids playing house and they owe it to their kids to TEACH them when is the right time to act like a shit.If it’s the wrong time? Smack their asses or take them home.
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Totally with LeSombre on this.
One of the most important things we need to instill in future generations is a sense of who they are, and how they fit into the bigger picture. You can’t see how to change the world, if aren’t exposed to it. Yes, we need to tell our kids to behave. But we also want to instill in them a curiosity about the world, and we can’t do that if we don’t take them outside the house once in a while. It’s about teaching, and part of the teaching is about respect of others.
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Twitter: Faiqa
says:
LeSombre is absolutely right. You, on the other hand, Adam will be getting an ass kicking next time I see you. As promised.
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Crystal, maybe someone should start a family airline that’s only for families flying with kids.
Kelley, as long as he’s not at the musical, that’s ok.
Jozet, the nice thing is that as an adult, you have the privilege of being an asshole. As a kid, you don’t. I’m not saying that I like adults who act like that, but it’s a lot easier to tell an adult to get the fuck out.
Amanda, exactly! Movies should be for the people who actually pay for them.
Jay, yeah, kids in a casino is the epitome of trashy.
LMSS, but even those rare occasions are frustrating to those of us who are an audience to it.
Sarah, can I come into your store and lick your mirrors, though?
Danalyn, oh, I agree. The parent should definitely be banned as well.
Jozet, that’s why I think it’s okay for kids to go places like chain restaurants (Friday’s, Chili’s, etc.) where adults expect it to be loud, so it’s not quite so annoying, but they can learn how to interact in a social situation without annoying me in a an actually nice restaurant.
Wayne, nah, my rules would be more efficient in that case.
Kay, does your three-year old cry? Ever?
Colleen, oh, I’d expect kids to behave in kid-friendly places, too – that helps them understand how to act properly even if they get excited.
SingleParentDad, even a kid with an aptitude for fitting in is going to lapse occasionally and annoy those around him or her.
Robin, parents are the ones responsible and to blame, but maybe if kids get banned from these places, parents will start doing a better job so that the rules will change!
Aunt Robin, that’s why I think it’s okay for them to be in some social situations – just not in nice places.
Blondefabulous, what’s the difference between children and kids?
LeSombre, I’m glad to see you’re doing your job as parents, but I think a ban on kids in general would make it easier on everyone.
Jennifer, tell me more about this “gravo”!
Karen, that’s almost more annoying than the actual kid acting up!
Mattie, that’s probably a valuable lesson!
Lin, children should be allowed in to museums only under very limited circumstances. Maybe when adults aren’t around.
Sarah, that’s why a family-friendly plane would be a genius idea!
Britt, I do too!
SciFi Dad, that’s why they can learn proper etiquette in restaurants that aren’t nice fany restaurants. Plus, I took etiquette classes as a kid – you can learn all of that stuff just like you can learn math and science and vocabulary.
NYCWD, operas are not the most entertaining, I’ll give you that.
Jules, exactly!
Muskrat, I’m almost always right. It’s a heavy burden.
Paticus, I wish more parents were like you too!
Robin, I agree completely.
Sybil, kids should be allowed in public from like 8 AM until 6 PM and then that’s it. Like a curfew.
Hello, I know I can’t say all, but it’s just easier to do that.
Clown, I think Will and Tina have been stealing from my wallet again. Chop off their other hands.
Finn, nobody knew there was a baby there but if he had started crying, everyone would have known and it would have ruined the experience, right?
Em, I only wish my rules could be enforced!
Grant, licenses to kill should be mandatory.
Hello, you shouldn’t have been in a restaurant like that dressed like that in the first place. That would have annoyed me no matter how well behaved you are or whether or not you knew what chateaubriand was.
Metalmom, yeah, the parents who have clearly lost power over their kids are very frustrating – more so than the kids themselves.
Nat, that’s what TV is for!
Faiqa, I’ll trade you a get out of ass kicking free card for the newest Buffy trade!
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Twitter: hellohahanarf
says:
a) there was no one else in the entire restaurant.
b) there was no dress code posted or suggested. it was right on the water. not my fault the server was over dressed.
c) fuck you very much.
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Don’t all non-breeders feel that way? ::ducking and running away cackling::
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I think enough people have already made the point that well-behaved children are getting a bad rap from the mongrels that abound. I also think that if you don’t want to be annoyed by kids, you should stay home. The fact of the matter is that humans are designed top procreate. Societies are built to protect children into adulthood. Non-breeders like yourself are less important tothe world than breeders, so if anyone should suffer being locked up in a house, it’s you.
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Hello, I stand by my point! Kids in bathing suits don’t belong in restaurants, ever. Neither do adults.
Kris, I’m sure many of them are much more tolerable. It’s funnier how many parents feel this way!
Allyson, actually, with overpopulation, procreation is slowly losing priority now. Us non-breeders have more value than people who are thrusting their grubby, nasty kids on the struggling world.
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Parents who don’t properly discipline their kids and teach them proper manners and respect are one of my BIGGEST pet peeves. I can’t tell you the number of times I want to say something to these rude, obnoxious monsters I am seeing all over town these days. My tongue has permanent bite marks on it.
THat said, it might be a bit tough not allowing them on airplanes. Unless they start issuing horse tranquilizers to parents for their kids as they board. :thumbsup:
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My children know how to act in public, they know if they misbehave, they will be taken out of where ever we are and have their bottoms swatted. I can’t tell you how many times other customers have walked by our table and stopped to tell us how well behaved our children are, most don’t realize we have children with us, until they walk by.
My children say “Please, Thank-you, and No Thank you.” They can order off the regular menu and will eat what they get.
We have taken them to the movies -but as a general rule, we take them to the afternoon shows – we know our children, we know their limits, and taking them to a show after their bedtime – not a good idea. But they love going to the movies, and it is a HUGE treat to be able to go.
As parents, we are very demanding of our children, and what we expect of them. I would take my children to a museum – but only if the exhibits would hold their interest. Dinosaurs – yes; art by Picasso – not so much.
I think as a parent is it my job to teach them what is acceptable, and what is not. Don’t hate the kids for having bad parents, hate the parents for being too lazy to do their jobs.
Did your parents ever take you anywhere? At what age did you start going to restaurants, movies, museums, the opera etc…. How did you learn how to behave in public – how did you learn what is acceptable behavior?
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Hey Avi, can you take my kids to see Quantum of Solace Monday night when we’re in Orlando? My wife and I will need some alone-time….
:poke:
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Giggle Pixie, I support a family-only airline!
Fantastagirl, we went out to dinner only on special occasions, and we almost never went to the movies until I was at least 9 or 10. In school, I took etiquette classes, and holiday dinners with my relatives helped to cement proper manners.
I don’t blame the kids who are little shits – I do blame the parents, but in the end, it’s the kids who are annoying at that moment, too.
Ren, how old are they?
Email me, btw. Maybe we can get together for dinner or something. And the kids are invited!
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Ok, I was playing devils advocate and trying to start shit. Trust me, I hate nothing more than spoiled kids and inattentive parents who wont’ correct their kids in public. But those without kids must realize how hard it is to reprimand your kids’ behavior in public when every other person is like “omg, she beat that kid’s ass. That’s child abuse!” I actually had a lady follow me through a store one day because I had hte nerve to push my child out of danger and tell her (in my mom voice) to tie her shoe. I handed my phone to the lady and told her to call the cops if she was gonna. Then i proceeded to “shop the same aisles at the same time” as her. (snicker)
Seriously though – I agree with you on most fronts, but I land somewhere in the middle of “they have to have the experience in order to know how to act in that moment.” I think we’re around the same age and when we were kids, it was “be seen and not heard.” Nowadays there’s all that “oh you’ll hurt his little psyche….waaa waaa waaa.”
I also have an Asperger’s child (incredibly bright but no filter between the brain and mouth and low social skills). She’s also got sensory problems and when she’s overwhelmed and gone, she’s GONE and there’s no bringing her back to reality until she can calm down. I KNOW THIS and I adjust my outings with her accordingly. Every parent should!
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Ok, I just realized I’m older than you. So stop your whining ya big baby! And respect your elders. *snerk*
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I have always taken my nieces out, to lots of places, and they have always behaved well, but I think that may be because I consistently have threatened them with physical violence and exclusion if they misbehave.
I do not take crap from ANYONE, much less a child.
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I take my kids everywhere possible. How else are they supposed to learn how to behave? You can’t just tell a child ‘look, when you’re ten we’ll go there and you’ll act perfect’. shit, you couldn’t just tell an adult that and expect perfection.
My son, twelve, loves the theatre, he’s been going since he was three. He’s well behaved in restauraunts and movies and the plane. I plan on exposing my little ones to as many different activities as possible, so that they will know how to act in different situations.
Sorry, but you just pointed out how very little people who don’t have children understand about how to raise them properly.
But I still love you!
xo
b.
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Just Beth ,you make a great point about exposing your kids to different environments, but I think you are wrong to say that Adam doesn’t understand about raising kids properly. He only asks that your kids behave PROPERLY. And sure, take your kids out to learn, but please be one of those parents that disciplines their child and teaches them that noise will get them taken home.
The most important point was made by Kris “I adjust my outings with her accordingly. Every parent should!”
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What if you have a child and you live on an island? Should you not ever fly home to visit relatives?
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Beth, I think what metalmom means is it’s not so much NOT taking them out to begin with, but more a case of realizing that if they’re losing their shit, no matter WHERE you are, you have to be remove them instead of disturbing everyone else.
My kids love the theater, too – especially musicals. But if they were kicking seats or making a commotion, you’re damn straight that I’m going to deal with it then and there. Too many parents don’t, and it gives the rest of us a bad name. I do the same thing with my husband when he’s out of control.
And when she’s already having a difficult day, there’s really nowhere I HAVE to take her. (On occasion, maybe to the store for meds or something, but then we make it as quick a trip as possible.)
Kids who behave themselves aren’t the issue – unless I’m misinterpreting.
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My question is…do you ever go to Musicals, operas or symphonies?
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I have the most perfect children in the world, so I’ve never had to worry about any of this.
*cough*cough…
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Having just listened to the entire show (an hour of my life I’ll never get back…thanks for that…) I just wanted to let you know I think you are an asshole.
And it’s possible I could be in love with Britt.
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metalmom: He does say that they shouldn’t be allowed these experiences (Adam does)… now, if he were saying that children who’s parents are fucktard’s should be allowed these experiences, then I’d say hells yeah you’re right. There are definatley people out there who do NOT take care of their children and who have little to zero respect for others around them. I’m not one of them, though. I want the people next to me to have a pleasant time, too. And if that means yanking my two year old out of a restaurant to a time out in the car, you’d better believe that’s what it takes. But to say that I shouldn’t take them anywhere until they’re older is unreasonable.
That being said, I agree with you and Kris about adjusting your outings accordingly. I just didn’t read that in Adams post… I believe he used words more like ‘restricted to’ and ‘shouldn’t be allowed’. I think that’s just as wrong as the idiots who let their children run amok.
xo!
b.
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Kris, I definitely think you have a good attitude about it. And I don’t think you’re that much older!
Tracy, well, you are intimidating.
Just Beth, that’s why I’m saying that they should learn in places where it’s expected to be loud and obnoxious. Like TGI Friday’s. At some point they have to actually learn how to act without experiencing it firsthand. I did.
Metalmom, the good parents do make it so you don’t even know kids are there, which is what I prefer.
Beth, nope. They should come to you.
Hilly, musicals and theater, yes. I’ve also been to both operas and symphonies, although they’re not my favorite activities.
Twinkie, mmhmm. I’m sure.
Redneck Mommy, it’s a good thing you love assholes.
Beth, the thing is, you can’t tell which kids are good or bad until they get out there and act up, and even good kids still act up. Regardless, it’s very annoying to those of us whenever someone’s kid acts up, even if it’s unusual for them. So the best way to keep that from happening is just to make a blanket statement! Or make soundproof rooms for families that the rest of us can avoid.
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I agree with LeSombre 100%
I am a single mom, and even when I was married I was alone with my daughter most of the time anyway. I began taking my daughter out with me to restaurants, church, movies, and other public places, etc. from the very beginning out of necessity (I couldn’t afford a baby sitter all the time). She learned very quickly how to socially interact with adults, and if there was the slightest acting out on her part, I was quick to whisk her out of the situation. It was MY responsibility as the parent to be sure nobody else was inconvenienced by my having her there. I believe she is a very well-adjusted, socially intelligent, mature girl for 8 years of age because of it.
Now, for children whose parents have not disciplined them properly and who are hellions, all of Avitable’s rules above apply.
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I agree!!!
Kids suck!!!
I hate them all!!
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I turned my answer for this into a blog post. Enjoy!
I wish I could have connected last night!!! ARGH!!!
Shash
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I think kids deserve a lot more respect and responsibility than we give them. For instance I think that when kids are old enough to walk they should be given a mining helmet and a few spare bulbs and be expected to contribute to the family income.
Movies
I think that kids are fine to go to the movies any time, no matter what movie – as long as it is being shown at the bottom of a mine.
Restaurants
There should be no kids in restaurants except for the mining company cafeterias.
Public places
Are there public mines? Didn’t think so. Public places are OUT!
Airplanes
There is no need for kids on airplanes ever. Wherever they’re going – give them a pick and they can tunnel their way there.
Museums
This is an exception. Kids should go to museums so that they can learn about their world. This is important for them. As long as it is not a museum where I am personally visiting – and it’s at the bottom of a mine.
Musicals, opera, symphonies:
Do they have musicals, operas and symphonies in mines? No? Moot question then.
By the way – I define kids as anyone 2 to 29.
Cheers.
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Gravol is an anti-nausea medication. Knocks kids out cold. And parents when needed. I used to get car/airplane sick when I was little, so I was drugged out of my tree for big trips.
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Well, I may be able to tell an adult to get the fuck out, but rarely does it happen as often as it should. And adults are big and tell you to fuck off right back. Or worse. Believe me, I’ve been on the receiving end of that behavior, too. Retail workers are the dogs everyone likes to kick.
As for taking kids to Applebees or whatever and eating from their high fat, low creativity menu, I’m fully against raising another generation of adults with bad taste and bad taste.
And if parents are really doing a god awful job with their kids and not just having a bad moment, then unfortunately, it is up to the rest of us to step in and either help out or let kids know the parameters whether in the moment or through helping mentor in youth group activities, etc. Otherwise, another generation of – honestly *neglected* – children will grow up to another generation of crap adults. That said, diplomacy and kindness rule the day, as does awareness of the different parameters within different cultures. A good kid in one culture is much different than a good kid in others.
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Yeah, I’m gonna have to disagree with pretty much everything you just said. My children have been traveling with me and dining out with me since they were babies.
I enjoy nice dinners and my kids do too. They will eat pretty much everything but Vietnamese food – they don’t like it. And I don’t go to dinner to pay a fortune for Chicken Fingers either.
We also go to the theatre and I have tried to teach them to appreciate all art forms like museums and the symphony.
As for movies, we don’t go often anyway, but when we do, it’s for a random cartoon movie.
That said, I worked in bars and restaurants for a really long time. Please teach your children how to behave before you bring them out of the house. The worst thing in the world is having a lovely meal interrupted by a screaming, cranky kid who is being a major brat. No, the worst thing is having to wait on them while their indulgent, “let’s be friends and never correct our children” parents laugh like it’s a hilarious thing to have your brats jumping up and down on tables and running through the restaurant.
And people who bring their kids to a bar = super assholes.
Period.
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I don’t agree with you but I nearly pissed myself laughing. Very funny.
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Ginger, I would rather just apply it across the board to all kids so I don’t have to discriminate.
Michelle, you like exclamation points, though!
Shash, me too – we would have loved your opinion in the chatroom.
FWG, you make some very valid points.
Jennifer, I might have to slip some of that into kids’ drinks next time I babysit.
Jozet, maybe we should just require people to have a license to have a child?
ADW, isn’t “Super Asshole” your nickname for me?
J from Ireland, in the end, that’s all that matters!
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Twitter: mamandesfilles
says:
I understand your point, but I would like to say that I have raised my children right and that my kids have been taught to behave themselves. How behaved are they? Their behavior has been praised by flight attendants on international flights and waiters in Parisian restaurants.
I will agree that the majority of children are not properly supervised in public but unfortunately that is not their fault. They will be no more civilized when they are 30. I’m sure you have seen those kinds of asshats when you go out. :sex014: If they had been properly civilized as children they would have turned out to be better grownups.
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Maman, plenty of kids who have limited exposure to places where adults don’t want them grow up to be perfectly civilized. Like me.
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Just have to say I agree. I am pregnant for the first time (with twin boys) and I’ve worked with kids professionally since 1998. You couldn’t be more right in the philosophy underlying this – teach your kids NOT to annoy strangers. I don’t necessarily agree practically speaking 100% that say, kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly until they’re 9. But, hey, I agree with the sentiment behind it – if your kid can’t handle the plane, drive.
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Myg, or we could just invent teleportation!
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Teleportation would solve a LOT of problems! “Are we there yet?” at the top of the list.
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Ok, this comment is two days late, so I won’t be surprised if you don’t respond, BUT:
Over population is a myth. In Italy, for instance, the goverment is offering cash rewards to women who give birth to try to increase their population. I know there were other countries mentioned in the article, but I only retain what’s interesting to me, and since my children and in-laws are Italian, that’s the only one that stuck.
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Twitter: poppycede
says:
I tried to leave a comment two days ago via BlackBerry’s Opera mini but it wouldn’t let me. All I had to say was:
I’m not driving to England.
And, also, I enjoyed listening to your show in archive form.
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Myg, exactly!
Allyson, with people living much longer lifespans and with modern medicine keeping those alive who otherwise should have died, our population will eventually overtake the land we have on which to house them. How is that a myth?
Poppy, make England come to you.
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Well behaved kids are not an issue, for the most part. I took my daughter to a lot of places and she was pretty well behaved. If she was tired and got cranky, we cut our visit short and left as to not bother the masses.
To add to your movie ban, any movie that is rated for adults, leave the kid at home. I can’t tell you how fucking pissed I get when I go see an R-Rated action film and some parent has their 2 month old baby in their arms, while they are trying to watch the movie. Not only will the kids hearing be damaged at a very early age, the first peep out of that kid while Mother of the Year is trying to find out what happens to Bruce Willis is going to irritate every adult in that theater.
BTW, I agree with everything you said above.
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When Little Elvis was 2 he had one of those ‘teachable-two’ moments in a restaurant while we were waiting to be seated. A young man about 25 or so walked over, looked my son and then at me and said, “What a monster.”
My response to him was the same as it is to all who think kids should the sometimes-seen and not heard: “Hello! Guess what? You were like that once, too. The only difference is you obviously never grew out of being obnoxious and totally self-absorbed.” :loser:
Today, at 12, LE is more mannered and respectful than that young man was at 25.
It isn’t kids I have a problem with in the situations cited above, it’s with the parents. If I can’t get a sitter, I simply postpone going to the movies until I can get one. I’m in agreement with those who think parents should use better judgment when considering taking a small child to an 8pm or later film. Hey, I get cranky when I stay up too late, too. :banghead:
And about crying babies on planes? They have no mechanism for unplugging their ears; and as most infants and toddlers have chronically congested uestachian tubes, it causes intense pressure and pain. Next time you’re in a plane, think about that.
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We like taking our kids out to the finest restaurants. Then we send them to run wild through the place. Yelling, screaming and sticky hands are a must.
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Holy crap, I agree, I agree, I agree!!!! If I was the boss of the world (LOL) I would make one day ‘kid-free day’ when parents aren’t allowed to bring their children into public (unless they are still a fetus, I suppose that’s acceptable) and either have to hire a babysitter or stay home with the ill-mannered little brats they created. Oh, what a pleasure grocery shopping would be without screaming kids running up and down the aisles, pushing old people out of the way. Stores could even hand out champagne at the door for their adults-only event and a mean looking bouncer could stand at the door refusing entry to families. Giggle. Swear words could be spoken allowed rather than muttered under your breath. Oh, in a perfect world…
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I hate it when kids say ewww when they see a person who is disfigured and they call them ugly. and the parent just ignores the comment their little brat made instead of thelling them to say sorry.
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KIDS SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN PLANE, I HATE FLYING WITH KIDS OF ALL AGES,
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